| rrq | gnarface: another tidbit to eventually forget :) ..,: pkginfo updates at 20 minutes past every hour integer-divisible by 4 | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | ah, thanks | 00:02 |
| gnarface | are python package dependencies broken in daedalus right now? | 06:08 |
| gnarface | i was trying to upgrade and it choked | 06:08 |
| Helenah | gnarface, The line broke, the monkey got choked, and they all went to heaven in a little row boat. | 07:10 |
| gnarface | thanks Helenah, that's... very colorful. | 16:23 |
| gnarface | I don't suppose anyone is expecting a fix for this any time soon? | 16:23 |
| * gnarface sighs | 16:47 | |
| gnarface | half-upgraded system now crashy as hell | 16:47 |
| gnarface | apparently i picked the wrong week do this | 16:48 |
| rwp | gnarface, Welcome to the wonderful world of the bleeding edge of Debian/Devuan! | 16:54 |
| gnarface | rwp: you happen to hear any rumors about how long it's gonna take to fix this? | 16:55 |
| rwp | gnarface, Perhaps something in my notes here might brainstorm something for your problem? https://www.proulx.com/~bob/doc/bobs-guide-to-system-upgrades-with-debian/bobs-guide-to-system-upgrades-with-debian.html | 16:55 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 16:55 |
| rwp | gnarface, I am not seeing any particular python package problem in Unstable/Testing at this moment on my canary systems. | 16:55 |
| gnarface | hmm | 16:56 |
| gnarface | rwp: which python version do you have? | 16:58 |
| rwp | My Unstable system shows 3.11 like this https://paste.debian.net/plain/1272554 | 16:59 |
| gnarface | problem is i'm trying to go to daedalus and it seems to be choking on replacing some 3.10.6-1 packages | 17:00 |
| rwp | You might have to help some of them along. What types of problems are occuring? | 17:02 |
| rwp | Oops, I have a meeting now. | 17:03 |
| gnarface | ah, i think i found the problem | 17:05 |
| gnarface | python3-numpy and python-numpy were both using the same file | 17:05 |
| gnarface | but i couldn't remove either with apt-get, had to use dpkg -r | 17:06 |
| gnarface | couldn't install aptitude and forgot about "dpkg -r" then panicked | 17:07 |
| gnarface | sorry for the noise | 17:07 |
| gnarface | "apt-get --fix-broken install" was just in a loop | 17:08 |
| gnarface | brb | 17:08 |
| gnarface | all working now, though i am noticing that my boot-time used ram figure has ballooned from 161MB to ~437MB | 17:50 |
| gnarface | also, what is seatd and do i need it? | 17:51 |
| gnarface | (assuming i only have one seat and no graphical logins) | 17:51 |
| gnarface | also, thunderbird is still a mess, should i just downgrade it again? | 17:52 |
| gnarface | ugh, i should have pinned it | 17:52 |
| fsmithred_ | thunderbird is a mess anyway and has been for a long time. I'm only still using it due to inertia. | 17:55 |
| gnarface | do you know anything about this situation now where it's duplicated all my IMAP directories with a "-1" appended to the name of all the duplicates? | 17:55 |
| fsmithred_ | I don't | 17:56 |
| fsmithred_ | close and restart t-bird maybe? | 17:57 |
| gnarface | no help. also seems to still not like my self-signed certificate | 17:57 |
| gnarface | (which is the reason i downgraded last time) | 17:57 |
| fsmithred_ | is this relatged to oauth? | 17:57 |
| fsmithred_ | wow. "related" | 17:58 |
| gnarface | i don't think so, i'm just using imap-ssl to a local server | 17:58 |
| onefang_ | I've got neomutt pinned all the way back to ASCII. What is it with mail programs? lol | 17:58 |
| fsmithred_ | probably should change its name from "neo" | 17:58 |
| onefang_ | Back in ASCII it was called mutt, even though it's a fork of mutt. | 17:59 |
| gnarface | oh... huh | 18:02 |
| gnarface | fsmithred_: you were right, sorry. restarting thunderbird again removed the duplicate directories | 18:03 |
| gnarface | still no idea why it hates my certificate | 18:03 |
| gnarface | i mean, it says the reason is that it "belongs to a different site" but it doesn't | 18:04 |
| gnarface | the CN matches what i have in the mail server config... | 18:04 |
| gnarface | and the forward and reverse lookups all match because i have local DNS self-managed correctly | 18:04 |
| gnarface | it's just wrong as far as i can tell | 18:04 |
| gnarface | my assumption is that it doesn't like that it's self-signed but is throwing the wrong error message about it | 18:04 |
| gnarface | it's not even expired this time... | 18:05 |
| gnarface | unlike the previous version instead of just failing, i'm at least being prompted to "confirm security exception," but i don't wanna and shouldn't have to | 18:06 |
| gnarface | ugh, and it's taking a really really long time to access large folders (longer than usual) after startup | 18:22 |
| gnarface | hopefully at least it's not leaking memory too | 18:22 |
| * gnarface sighs | 18:22 | |
| DashiePie | I want to use google's dns instead of my isp's | 18:43 |
| gnarface | DashiePie: that's easy | 18:46 |
| gnarface | how exactly depends on which network management you're using though | 18:46 |
| gnarface | and whether or not you're using dhcp | 18:47 |
| DashiePie | afaik, I'm using just what was installed, though externally, I have a router, if that means anything | 18:47 |
| gnarface | well it depends on how you installed. what does this command return? dpkg -l |grep network | 18:51 |
| gnarface | actually, sorry, this command i mean: dpkg -l |grep network-manager | 18:52 |
| DashiePie | never mind, I think it's because shit breaks because web code is awful | 18:52 |
| DashiePie | >try to load Kongregate | 18:52 |
| DashiePie | >something's wrong, it won't resolve | 18:52 |
| DashiePie | >tons of errors in console | 18:52 |
| luis_ | Hello, what is the preferred way to install the latest version of firefox and purge ESR? | 18:55 |
| Wonka | luis_: I wrote myself a script around `wget --content-disposition 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest-ssl&os=linux64&lang=en-US'` | 18:57 |
| gnarface | i really do not recommend using the upstream firefox | 18:57 |
| luis_ | Wonka : It only downloads the tar.bz2 archive right? I need something to install it | 18:58 |
| luis_ | gnarface, the one from unstable? | 18:58 |
| luis_ | or do you mean the ppa? | 18:58 |
| Wonka | luis_: my script further unpacks that archive to /opt and symlinks /opt/firefox to the extracted directory | 18:58 |
| gnarface | luis_: i mean the one from mozilla.org like Wonka is suggesting | 18:59 |
| gnarface | luis_: there's no "ppas" in debian | 18:59 |
| Wonka | gnarface: what's wrong with it? | 18:59 |
| luis_ | right now I added the unstable repo and installed firefox, which installed the latest version (cool) but also installed unstable dependencies (not cool) | 19:00 |
| gnarface | Wonka: what's always wrong with it. zero-days, bugs, regressions, implicit security flaw of updating itself in a non-deb-package-aware manner, ...and it's nagware. | 19:00 |
| gnarface | luis_: you're supposed to use backports | 19:00 |
| gnarface | (if you actually need a newer one than stable) | 19:00 |
| gnarface | luis_: you're on stable right now, right? (chimaera) | 19:00 |
| Wonka | gnarface: download and extract is done as root, so it cannot "update itself". It's in its own directory under /opt, uninstalling is "rm -rf /opt/firefox-..." | 19:01 |
| Wonka | gnarface: bugs and regressions cannot be prevented in any distro version either | 19:01 |
| luis_ | gnarface, I'm on unstable for firefox and dependencies, chimaera-backports for linux kernel and gpu drivers, stable for the rest | 19:01 |
| gnarface | Wonka: uh, i'm pretty sure if you install the one that's not from the debian repos it will find a way to update itself without your permission | 19:01 |
| gnarface | Wonka: and bugs can be prevented in ... any distro version. that's what they're for. doesn't always work but it's one extra layer of review. | 19:02 |
| Wonka | gnarface: everything is owned by root and run by non-root. that would need a privilege escalation vuln. | 19:02 |
| luis_ | gnarface, bruh, I hadn't even thought of checking the backports before adding unstable... | 19:02 |
| gnarface | Wonka: no it just installs the updated engine to ~/.mozilla afair | 19:02 |
| Wonka | nothing big enough there | 19:03 |
| Wonka | also, it does regularly complain there was a newer version, settings are set to not download though. | 19:04 |
| luis_ | gnarface, backports only have the ESR version | 19:04 |
| gnarface | luis_: oh, bummer. well, using the mozilla.org version might be the easiest way then, since using the unstable version is likely to cause unexplained crashes and (as you already noticed) drag in extra unstable dependencies. the "right" way to do it would be to actually compile the unstable source package from debian, but honestly it's not worth the trouble just to have a newer firefox version unless your job is | 19:06 |
| gnarface | backporting newer firefox versions. | 19:06 |
| luis_ | I tried doing that with dpkg, had some problems and abandoned it | 19:07 |
| luis_ | Wonka, would you be willing to share your script? | 19:07 |
| gnarface | luis_: yea, usually you have to backport a few dependencies recursively too to make it work, but often you find out that those dependencies include "the entire system" at which point you might as well have just updated yourself to unstable instead | 19:08 |
| gnarface | Wonka: i recall those settings were on by default before at some point, but i'm old so it's hard to say how long ago. | 19:09 |
| gnarface | luis_: another crazy idea would be to just run a unstable chroot only for that one firefox version but again... may not be worth the trouble | 19:10 |
| luis_ | yeah probably | 19:12 |
| Wonka | luis_: https://gist.github.com/wklaebe/25ae5994ac3aeda776cfdcce30060d96 | 19:13 |
| gnarface | luis_: anyway, i would have been remiss to not warn you that it's not advised to install things from outside the official distro repos but i'm here doing the same thing with wine myself anyway, so i'm also guilty of some recklessness | 19:14 |
| Wonka | well, /opt is there to install non-distro stuff to... | 19:15 |
| gnarface | Wonka: well if the packages you're getting are well-behaved anyway they'll do that, and if you know that's what to expect of a well-behaved package then it'll even do you some good, but the warning is there because not everyone's 3rd party repos are so well behaved (ubuntu ppas and the deb-multimedia repo have historically set a particularly bad precedent in this regard) | 19:16 |
| luis_ | gnarface, It's not that big of a deal as long as the app doens't drag unstable dependencies | 19:16 |
| luis_ | Wonka, thank you! | 19:17 |
| gnarface | luis_: well, note that unpackaged software can cause unexpected problems during later upgrades, and even packaged software from outside the distro can cause similar problems if it uses incompatible version-string formats or even just compatible formats with out-of-sequence numbers | 19:18 |
| gnarface | luis_: i guess the primarily important thing is don't forget you've done this | 19:18 |
| gnarface | it might be fine in this case but it's not something you want to make a habit of doing without appropriate consideration | 19:19 |
| luis_ | absolutely, it's firefox we're talking about here after all | 19:19 |
| luis_ | is there a way to purge firefox esr without installing chromium? | 19:26 |
| Wonka | by the way, why is "firmware-amd-graphics" obsolete, and what was it replaced with? | 19:28 |
| Wonka | where would I get my Radeon's TURKS microcode from? | 19:28 |
| luis_ | did anyone answer my question? I left the channel to reboot | 19:29 |
| Wonka | nope | 19:29 |
| Wonka | but what would depend on firefox? | 19:29 |
| luis_ | what do you mean? | 19:30 |
| luis_ | I'm trying to purge Firefox ESR and use your script to get the release version | 19:30 |
| luis_ | but apt is trying to install chromium | 19:30 |
| Wonka | there's some things that depend on "www-browser"... which is also provided by w3m for example | 19:31 |
| Wonka | or lynx or elinks or links2 | 19:31 |
| luis_ | Then I have to change your script so the system sees the new firefox as the www-browser | 19:31 |
| Wonka | as the debian package www-browser? not that simple | 19:32 |
| Wonka | equivs does not exist anymore afaik | 19:32 |
| gnarface | it's called alternatives now | 19:34 |
| Wonka | "export BROWSER=/opt/firefox/firefox" in .bashrc does a lot | 19:34 |
| Wonka | alternatives do not satisfy deb requirements though | 19:34 |
| gnarface | i think they will if you use update-alternatives to point www-browser at a different program besides firefox | 19:34 |
| gnarface | which you'd have to have some other one installed to do... not sure if you'd even have to update the alternatives manually if you just installed something else first to be honest | 19:35 |
| Wonka | # apt-cache show yacas | grep ^Depends: | 19:35 |
| Wonka | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.29), libgcc-s1 (>= 3.0), libstdc++6 (>= 9), lynx | www-browser, yacas-doc, gnuplot | 19:35 |
| gnarface | Wonka: afaik firmware-amd-graphics is still the one to use, but if you're on testing or unstable they've moved it from the "non-free" section to a new section called "non-free-firmware" | 19:35 |
| Wonka | that www-browser dependency, how would you satisfy that with alternatives? | 19:35 |
| Wonka | gnarface: aaah | 19:36 |
| _ds_ | You wouldn't. You'd use a package which “Provides: www-browser”. | 19:36 |
| gnarface | yes, this | 19:36 |
| gnarface | you just install anything else that provides www-browser, which presumably luis_ doesn't have | 19:36 |
| Wonka | _ds_: that's what I mean; equivs would've built such a package on the spot, consisting of nothing but the "Provides:" | 19:37 |
| luis_ | can't I just set another app to do that | 19:37 |
| gnarface | if necessary you'd also use update-alternatives to pick one out of the installed ones as the default, but to be honest like i said i don't know that step is gonna be necessary | 19:37 |
| Wonka | luis_: just install w3m, it's not big | 19:37 |
| gnarface | i recommend lynx but whatever works | 19:37 |
| luis_ | wait there's a terminal browser | 19:38 |
| luis_ | I'll probably move to that lmao, I'll try one of those | 19:38 |
| Wonka | luis_: be aware that most of those do not do JavaScript, which renders most websites unusable today | 19:39 |
| gnarface | most of them don't even do css | 19:39 |
| luis_ | kinda figured that, sad | 19:39 |
| gnarface | they're useful for some stuff though | 19:39 |
| gnarface | like browsing linux documentation or avoiding firefox zero-days | 19:39 |
| gnarface | or just like, downloading files without creating a 2GB memory footprint | 19:40 |
| Wonka | having chromium installed parallel to firefox leaves you another way out, btw ;) | 19:40 |
| Wonka | gnarface: wget and curl do that too ;) | 19:40 |
| gnarface | true but it's nice sometimes to have something that can still at least render html | 19:40 |
| Wonka | yep | 19:41 |
| Wonka | lynx -dump is great for that | 19:41 |
| luis_ | after installing w3m AND lynx, apt is still trying to install chromium when purging firefox esr | 19:44 |
| Wonka | dafuq | 19:44 |
| Wonka | did I already tell that I like aptitude for looking into stuff like that? | 19:45 |
| luis_ | wym | 19:45 |
| _ds_ | Does something want gnome-www-browser? | 19:46 |
| luis_ | how do I check that | 19:48 |
| _ds_ | $ aptitude why gnome-www-browser | 19:48 |
| luis_ | my bad, I thought you were talking about apt | 19:49 |
| gnarface | i think with apt it's rdepends | 20:01 |
| gnarface | er, apt-cache anyway | 20:02 |
| gnarface | depends or rdepends, one of the two | 20:02 |
| fsmithred_ | might be task-*-desktop that wants the browser | 20:14 |
| gnarface | whatever it is, it's something i don't have here | 20:17 |
| luis_ | gnome-www-browser doesn't exist | 20:32 |
| luis_ | why does apt keeps trying to install chromium ffs | 20:42 |
| gnarface | luis_: try "--no-install-recommends" | 20:45 |
| luis_ | still trying to install chromium | 20:47 |
| gnarface | and you have lynx installed? | 20:48 |
| luis_ | lynx and w3m | 20:49 |
| gnarface | what does this output? update-alternatives --display www-browser | 20:50 |
| luis_ | www-browser - auto mode | 20:51 |
| luis_ | link best version is /usr/bin/lynx | 20:51 |
| luis_ | link currently points to /usr/bin/lynx | 20:51 |
| luis_ | link www-browser is /usr/bin/www-browser | 20:51 |
| luis_ | slave www-browser.1.gz is /usr/share/man/man1/www-browser.1.gz | 20:51 |
| luis_ | slave www-browser.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/lynx.1.gz | 20:51 |
| luis_ | slave www-browser.1.gz: /usr/share/man/man1/w3m.1.gz | 20:51 |
| gnarface | weird that firefox isn't showing up | 20:53 |
| gnarface | it's not showing up in mine either | 20:53 |
| gnarface | try running update-alternatives --config www-browser | 20:53 |
| gnarface | see what options it gives you | 20:53 |
| gnarface | that mystery aside, i think your output proves my hypothesis about this wrong | 20:54 |
| gnarface | so i'm out of ideas | 20:54 |
| gnarface | fsmithred's idea bout task-*-desktop sounds plausible, you should also run: dpkg -l |grep task | 20:54 |
| luis_ | gives the same ones, I just added the firefox in /opt/firefox | 20:54 |
| luis_ | so now it shows that, but I still can't purge firefox esr | 20:55 |
| Jjp137 | luis_, what's the output of: apt-cache --installed rdepends firefox-esr | 20:55 |
| luis_ | gnarface, ii libgcr-base-3-1:amd64 3.38.1-2 amd64 Library for Crypto related tasks | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii libgcr-ui-3-1:amd64 3.38.1-2 amd64 Library for Crypto UI related tasks | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii libkpimgapitasks5:amd64 20.08.3-1 amd64 library to integrate with Google Tasks service API | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii libtaskmanager6abi1 4:5.20.5-6 amd64 Plasma Workspace for KF5 library | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii python3-invoke 1.4.1+ds-0.1 all Pythonic task execution - Python 3.x | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii task-british-desktop 3.68+devuan4u1 all British English desktop | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii task-british-kde-desktop 3.68+devuan4u1 all British KDE Plasma desktop | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii task-english 3.68+devuan4u1 all General English environment | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii tasksel 3.68+devuan4u1 all tool for selecting tasks for installation on Devuan systems | 20:55 |
| luis_ | ii tasksel-data 3.68+devuan4u1 all official tasks used for installation of Devuan systems | 20:56 |
| luis_ | ii xfce4-taskmanager 1.4.0-1 amd64 process manager for the Xfce4 Desktop Environment | 20:56 |
| luis_ | firefox-esr | 20:56 |
| luis_ | Reverse Depends: | 20:56 |
| luis_ | libc6 | 20:56 |
| luis_ | |libreoffice-help-en-gb | 20:56 |
| luis_ | |libreoffice-help-en-gb | 20:56 |
| luis_ | chrome-gnome-shell | 20:56 |
| luis_ | |cinnamon-desktop-environment | 20:56 |
| luis_ | I hope I don't get banned for spamming | 20:56 |
| gnarface | luis_: better to use paste.debian.net yea, but your client's local throttling seems to have kept you under the radar this time | 20:57 |
| Jjp137 | okay libreoffice-help-en-gb depends on: firefox-esr or epiphany-browser or konqueror or chromium or firefox | 20:57 |
| Jjp137 | thus apt will always try to keep one of them installed | 20:57 |
| luis_ | I have a firefox installed but it's not from apt | 20:58 |
| Jjp137 | it has to be known to the package manager | 20:58 |
| luis_ | then the only option is to get firefox from sid | 20:58 |
| gnarface | luis_: remember my speech earlier about problems with the unpackaged firefox? | 20:59 |
| luis_ | or can I register an external firefox in apt? | 20:59 |
| luis_ | gnarface, a litte, why | 20:59 |
| gnarface | luis_: because this is a case study in the type of thing that happens | 20:59 |
| luis_ | this isn't even a problem in firefox, it's just the system being picky | 20:59 |
| gnarface | with any unpackaged software or 3rd party repo software | 20:59 |
| gnarface | mind you, it might happen if you install the sid version too, but i agree that sounds like your easiest solution at this point if you don't want some other browser shoved down your throat by KDE | 21:00 |
| gnarface | since it's just firefox it might be fine to do... but you create frankendevuan at that point | 21:01 |
| luis_ | What surprises me is that if you install from a .deb, it should work | 21:01 |
| gnarface | well if the header fields of the deb are right it'd work | 21:01 |
| gnarface | it just has to fool kde into thinking it's the right firefox which shouldn't be hard if you're making the package | 21:01 |
| luis_ | why isn't there a .deb for firefox | 21:01 |
| gnarface | i could only speculate | 21:02 |
| gnarface | anyway, the "right" way to proceed at this point would be to actually get the deb-src package for sid firefox and compile it locally | 21:03 |
| gnarface | i can't tell you whether that's gonna be hard or not | 21:03 |
| gnarface | in a fair world it would be merely time consuming | 21:03 |
| Jjp137 | ...considering that it depends on Rust it can be tricky | 21:03 |
| gnarface | but sometimes they don't build | 21:03 |
| hagbard | at the moment it's impossible because it depends on rustc which is outdated in debian sid | 21:04 |
| Jjp137 | lol... | 21:04 |
| hagbard | There are debian bugs filed about that. | 21:04 |
| gnarface | oh i should say the right way to continue would be to either build it locally or run unstable in a chroot | 21:04 |
| gnarface | (a chroot or any type of container really) | 21:04 |
| luis_ | I'll just leave the firefox esr on and install the other in /opt | 21:04 |
| gnarface | (qemu would do) | 21:04 |
| luis_ | easiest way | 21:05 |
| gnarface | firefox-esr is better anyway :-p | 21:05 |
| hagbard | but usually there's an up to date firefox in debian sid available. | 21:05 |
| hagbard | which usually runs fine in devuan testing. | 21:06 |
| onefang | Rustc ... rusted? B-) | 21:07 |
| hagbard | indeed. debian is a few versions behind, by now. | 21:07 |
| luis_ | gnarface, why | 21:10 |
| gnarface | luis_: changes less | 21:12 |
| luis_ | actually, I might keep it | 21:15 |
| systemdlete | So today there was an update to kpartx due to the nemesis. Is there ANY thing it doesn't infect? Err. I mean "affect" | 21:19 |
| systemdlete | I think RH needs a divorce from Linux and free software. | 21:19 |
| systemdlete | just my opinion. | 21:19 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!