| rwp | xrogaan, I am very familiar with the saga. I simply disagree with the premise. Put me down for strongly disagree. | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| se7en | I have been having trouble with installing Devuan to my new SSD | 01:29 |
| se7en | The auto-partitioner does not appear to be using 85% of the disk like I ask it to make, and after the install Grub fails to install period. | 01:29 |
| se7en | The installer appears to fail to recognize that the device is even an SSD, and even attempted to overwrite all data for the FDE | 01:30 |
| gnarface | uefi too? | 01:39 |
| Xenguy | xrogaan: rwp: We know that JWZ is, ah, volatile, of course | 01:46 |
| se7en | Yes I use UEFI | 01:51 |
| onefang | I have been looking for a replacement for xscreensaver, but not found anything yet with the features I want. Think I posted to our mailing list about that. | 02:40 |
| rrq | onefang: I make xautolock have the features I want :) | 03:01 |
| onefang | That basically just launches some program after it detects inactivity. Still need the "some program", and mostly I trigger xscreensaver manually to lock things when I step out. | 03:18 |
| onefang | Recommends xtrlock, xscreensaver, i3lock, and sucksless-tools. I tried the sucksless one, let's look at xtrlock and i3lock. | 03:19 |
| rrq | yes I use xtrlock | 03:19 |
| onefang | "you don't type at it". lol | 03:19 |
| rrq | but also fiddle with xset | 03:20 |
| onefang | So it unlocks how? If you don't type at it. | 03:20 |
| onefang | xset for blanking and monitor turn off I guess. | 03:20 |
| rrq | yes, xtrlock waits for my password | 03:21 |
| onefang | So you do type at it. B-) | 03:21 |
| rrq | yes | 03:21 |
| * onefang installs it to try it out. | 03:21 | |
| rrq | "xtrlock -b" ... if it's an old CRT then I also had "mouse move" a repeated "keiller" script | 03:22 |
| onefang | Installing it wants to restart my email servers graphing thingy? | 03:23 |
| rrq | no-recommends? | 03:23 |
| onefang | Yep, I got recommends turned off. | 03:23 |
| onefang | Might have been aleft over from the update I did a short time ago. shrugs | 03:24 |
| rrq | odd.. yes xtrlock doesn't depend on anything | 03:24 |
| onefang | Four libraries it depends on. libc, libcrypt, libx11, and libxi. | 03:25 |
| rrq | ye "anything worth mentioning" :) | 03:26 |
| onefang | lol | 03:26 |
| onefang | Ah it can blank the screen. | 03:26 |
| onefang | So I would still have to deal with "turn monitors off, turn them back on at mouse wave". Also no password prompt, which I kinda prefer, that's why I decided to not use sucksless. | 03:28 |
| rrq | I have a wrapper script with "xset s 5 dpms 5 +dpms" before and "xset s 600 dpms 0 -dpms" after | 03:29 |
| onefang | Though I have sucksless-tools installed for other reasons. | 03:30 |
| rrq | .. and my wrapper script also does setxkbmap fiddling (since I sometimes use "se") | 03:31 |
| onefang | "se"? | 03:31 |
| rrq | that the two-letter acronym for those pesky viking's language | 03:31 |
| onefang | Ah. | 03:32 |
| onefang | Coz you are related to pesky vikings? | 03:32 |
| rrq | indeed :) | 03:32 |
| rrq | and at the time I happened to have some keys that are part of the mapped keys in my pasword | 03:34 |
| rrq | like å ä ö | 03:35 |
| onefang | Fair enough. | 03:35 |
| onefang | I'm not seeing anything for the "turn monitors on and prompt for password when I wave the mouse / hit some shift key". | 03:39 |
| onefang | Coz I like to make sure I'm typing my password into the correct place. Typed it into the wrong place once, which was being projected onto a screen in front of a room full of computer experts. Wont make that mistake again. lol | 03:41 |
| * onefang swaps my HDMI ports and reboots so X notices I want two that are not mirrored, then tests xscreensaver again. | 03:45 | |
| rrq | tighr xtrlock doesn't offer any prompt;just eats the typing. start with newline | 03:45 |
| rrq | tighr? right. | 03:45 |
| rrq | and end with newline | 03:46 |
| onefang | That did the trick, xscreensaver is behaving now. | 03:52 |
| onefang | Odd, coz the one it was plugged into before was HDMI 0, now it's in HDMI 1. If it was gonna default to behaving properly on only one, I would have guessed HDMI 0. shrugs | 03:53 |
| onefang | I hate rebooting. | 03:53 |
| * onefang spends the next half hour starting up things the refuse to automate and logging into lots of things. | 03:54 | |
| onefang | Switching to awesome window manager might help with the automation, I can script it in my favourite scripting language. B-) | 03:55 |
| gnarface | onefang: maybe the bios is deciding which one is hdmi-0 on the fly at boot? | 04:22 |
| gnarface | like maybe based on whichever display is connected and powers up first or something? | 04:23 |
| onefang | Nah, it worked fine for years before I moved house, and plugged into the "wrong" port. | 04:39 |
| onefang | Anyway, it's fixed now. Time to move on. | 04:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | R.I.P. https://www68.zippyshare.com/ | 09:00 |
| se7en | I did not see a reply to my messages left yesterday. I do not know a good time to come on for troubleshooting. I am unable to install Devuan to my new SSD with the Desktop Installer (not the Net or Server installer). The autopart does not appear to be respecting the 85% provisioning request and after installing the system anyway Grub fails to install. I'm on a UEFI system | 18:53 |
| gnarface | i only asked whether it was a uefi system or not | 18:53 |
| gnarface | did you use lvm with your encrypted setup? | 18:54 |
| se7en | Yes | 18:54 |
| gnarface | do you have the cryptsetup-initramfs package? | 18:54 |
| se7en | I don't know if this matters but when I set it to do 85% of the disk, there is freespace but only a few MBs big. It is at the top and the bottom of the list, not together. | 18:55 |
| se7en | In my presently-installed system? | 18:55 |
| gnarface | the percentage math is crude | 18:55 |
| gnarface | i usually do everything manually | 18:55 |
| gnarface | and use static sizes | 18:55 |
| gnarface | i mean in the new one you're trying to install | 18:56 |
| gnarface | there's a few possible failure cases but i don't know them all very well and they all have the same symptom | 18:56 |
| gnarface | people around here do know | 18:57 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: ^ | 18:57 |
| se7en | What would you suggest then for seperate /var, /home, /tmp parts on a 1Tb SSD? 15% need to be free for overprovisioning, yes? | 18:57 |
| gnarface | tmp and var probably shouldn't be more than 5GB each for a desktop system | 18:59 |
| gnarface | even that is overkill but it gives you some headroom in case something goes off the rails | 18:59 |
| gnarface | i don't think this is why it's not booting though | 19:00 |
| gnarface | i think the boot issue has to do with the uefi integration and/or the encrypted disk setup, just based on statistics | 19:01 |
| gnarface | it might be as simple as adding a missing package | 19:01 |
| gnarface | i recommend you stick around until fsmithred or someone else who has done this a few times shows up | 19:02 |
| se7en | It's not that it's not booting, it's that grub fails to install | 19:07 |
| se7en | Repeatedly | 19:07 |
| fsmithred | back | 19:34 |
| fsmithred | se7en, got any error messages from grub? | 19:37 |
| fsmithred | and have you tried booting in rescue mode to reinstall the bootloader? | 19:37 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ booting the installation media in rescue mode^^ | 19:38 |
| se7en | fsmithred: I have tried to reinstal via rescuemode. I have not recieved error messages from grub, only from the installer. It's the Catastrophic Error message. However, it seems that it's a good thing because I'm also having problems with the autoparter as I said, which is also generating a swapfile | 20:38 |
| fsmithred | swapfile? | 20:49 |
| fsmithred | you're not using the desktop-live iso, are you? | 20:49 |
| fsmithred | se7en, ^^^ | 20:49 |
| se7en | fsmithred: yes | 21:02 |
| se7en | Well, no | 21:02 |
| se7en | Not the live ISO | 21:02 |
| se7en | The regular installer. I've always used the regular desktop installer in the past, except the one time or so I used the net installer. | 21:02 |
| fsmithred | what happens when you try to boot the installed system? you get a grub prompt or what? | 21:57 |
| se7en | It skips back to the disk | 22:00 |
| se7en | When I select the EFI boot entry for the HDD it just goes back to the selector | 22:00 |
| fsmithred | so you do get a boot menu? | 22:04 |
| fsmithred | do you know how to boot from grub command line? | 22:04 |
| fsmithred | or is that the boot menu from the bios? | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | do you have a separate boot partition, or is that part of the encrypted volume? | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | if /hoot is encrypted, does /etc/default/grub have the line for cryptodisk added? | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | is the root partition on luks1 or luks2? (it should be luks1) | 22:08 |
| se7en | I know how to boot. I did not get anything | 22:18 |
| se7en | Boot menu from the BIOS (UEFI) | 22:18 |
| se7en | I have screenshots | 22:18 |
| se7en | Well, not of boot but of the error | 22:18 |
| se7en | I only have one comp, so I have the old HDD in the computer right now and the SSD in its bo | 22:19 |
| se7en | s/bo/box | 22:19 |
| se7en | The partition scheme it made: https://freespeechextremist.com/media/f01c2924-1f06-4486-b642-35416a58e72a/Tusky_1681603250712_7I5KJBV25M.jpg?name=Tusky_1681603250712_7I5KJBV25M.jpg | 22:19 |
| se7en | The error that keeps coming up, recovery mode or otherwise https://freespeechextremist.com/media/3d0bdbec-3297-43aa-a3af-269ae26d7fe6/Tusky_1681601637555_6MIFIXM4D1.jpg?name=Tusky_1681601637555_6MIFIXM4D1.jpg | 22:19 |
| se7en | Terminal output from the installer https://freespeechextremist.com/media/afdfe571-ffc2-49a9-8f1f-93cf2f064191/Tusky_1681600943805_DZ4EA77EP1.jpg?name=Tusky_1681600943805_DZ4EA77EP1.jpg | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | ok, I will look at that - will be back in a few minutes. | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | you ran 'grub-install /dev/sda'? Did you try just 'grub-install'? You shouldn't need to name the drive with uefi because the bootloader goes into the esp partition. | 22:27 |
| se7en | Yes | 22:27 |
| se7en | I ran the program after the installer failed | 22:28 |
| se7en | both ways | 22:28 |
| se7en | This output is from the installer | 22:28 |
| fsmithred | weird that it thinks sda is a volume group. Any idea why it says that? | 22:29 |
| se7en | Not at all. | 22:29 |
| se7en | It did this without the 85% attempt too | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | and the esp partition was mounted to /boot/efi when you tried installing bootloader? | 22:31 |
| se7en | If the installer failed to do that, I do not know. I followed some instruction desperately tring to search for the solution, and at one point it did have me mount the efi. It said no such device. | 22:31 |
| se7en | If I remember correctly | 22:32 |
| se7en | I had last attempted this a week ago | 22:32 |
| se7en | I had other things I needed to do with my computer, so I just switched back to the HDD | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | were both hard drives in when you did the install? | 22:33 |
| fsmithred | and is there an esp partition on the old drive? | 22:33 |
| se7en | This is a laptop, there is only one bay | 22:33 |
| fsmithred | ah, ok. | 22:33 |
| se7en | All the information I'm finding on SSDs is cotradictory and/or outdated. Debian mainline hosts a guide, but it's for a HDD/SDD dual setup | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | what kind of laptop? | 22:34 |
| se7en | A lot of the info says 15% overprovision, so that's why I'm telling it 85%. I'm also seeing lots of contradictory info SWAP | 22:34 |
| se7en | Thinkpad T530 | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | and ssd? | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | damn, it should work. | 22:35 |
| se7en | I bought a Samsung 870 EVO from a dumbshit who worked at Best Buy, probably for more than it's worth | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | I've put ssd in T240 and T450s | 22:35 |
| rustyaxe | ive just quit using swap and let OOM killer deal with unbounded process growth rrather than shred my SSDs write cycles and bring the machine to a crawl | 22:36 |
| se7en | He didn't even know what a "TWD" metric was. "Yeah, don't worry. It'll last for a few years to a decade. You want it to last longer, buy a better brand like this Samsung for $30 more." | 22:36 |
| se7en | First and last time I'll ever buy from Best Buy. The memes from 10 years ago have held true today. Fry's is gone forever. Radio Shack is gone forever. They knew their own product. | 22:36 |
| rustyaxe | Radio SHack here closed only a few months ago | 22:37 |
| fsmithred | well, I hope that's not a serious issue because i'm running off a usb stick | 22:37 |
| se7en | I paid $80 for this drive before warranty, then I looked online and found an 8TB for $100. I think it was only an HDD but still. | 22:37 |
| rustyaxe | id take a 1tb SSD over an 8tb HD any day for a primary drive | 22:37 |
| fsmithred | 8TB for $100 sounds like something is wrong with it. | 22:38 |
| se7en | It was off some site called Parts Picker | 22:38 |
| se7en | As for myself, I already have this thing and I want it to work. | 22:38 |
| rustyaxe | the SSD is best option anyways.. So use it | 22:39 |
| se7en | that parts picker: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#sort=ppgb&page=1 | 22:39 |
| rustyaxe | back soon foodening | 22:39 |
| se7en | So what could I do on my next attempt to install Devuan to the new drive? | 22:39 |
| fsmithred | not sure | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | maybe boot from removable to look around at what's on the hard disk | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | or start removable media to get to grub prompt and try to boot the hard drive | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | set root=(hd0,gpt2) | 22:42 |
| se7en | Ok | 22:43 |
| se7en | Also, for that Parts Picker site does that look like it's legitimate? | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | linux /vmlinuz-<version> ro root=/dev/mapper/whatever | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | initrd /initrd-<version> | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | boot | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | use tab-complete for the version number | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | but that won't be enough to fix it because you aren't getting a grub prompt when you try to boot the hard drive | 22:45 |
| se7en | Let me ask this: Could you provide a partition scheme for my SSD so I may manualy partition, with the CryptoLUKS arrangement? | 22:46 |
| se7en | And 85% use | 22:46 |
| fsmithred | what's 85%? | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | leave some unpartitioned space on the drive? | 22:48 |
| se7en | 85% used, 15% free for overprovisioning | 22:48 |
| se7en | I have been led to believe this is the optimal configuration | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | I don't understand | 22:48 |
| fsmithred | the install automatically leaves 5% for filesystem management | 22:49 |
| se7en | It's an SSD. You need to leave a portion blank for overprovisioning | 22:49 |
| rustyaxe | wut? | 22:49 |
| fsmithred | blank means what? Not part of any partition? | 22:49 |
| se7en | And studying overprovisioning, it seems that 15% is optimal | 22:49 |
| se7en | Free space | 22:49 |
| fsmithred | unfilled filesystem space? | 22:50 |
| se7en | Yes | 22:50 |
| fsmithred | that's easy - don't put so much on the drive that it's full. | 22:50 |
| se7en | No, unpartitioned reserved space | 22:50 |
| fsmithred | never heard of that and I don't have any of that on my SSDs | 22:50 |
| se7en | https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/overprovisioning | 22:51 |
| se7en | All my study said to leave free space on the drive to allow the drive to function properly | 22:51 |
| fsmithred | I usually make separate /home and root partition. If encrypted, I make separate /boot | 22:51 |
| se7en | And it appears that 15% is optimal for overprovisioning | 22:52 |
| se7en | That means 150GB free space not allocated to any partition | 22:52 |
| rustyaxe | you keep saying that same nonsense. | 22:52 |
| se7en | On a 1TB drive | 22:52 |
| se7en | Then what is your suggestion | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | This OP capacity is non-user accessible and invisible to the host operating system. It is strictly reserved for the SSD controller’s use. | 22:53 |
| se7en | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | according to Kingston, you can't do anything with it. | 22:54 |
| se7en | The SSD controller will use free blocks on the SSD for garbage collection and wear leveling. The portion of the user capacity which is free from user data (either already TRIMed or never written in the first place) will look the same as over-provisioning space (until the user saves new data to the SSD). If the user saves data consuming only half of the total user capacity of the drive, the other | 22:55 |
| se7en | half of the user capacity will look like additional over-provisioning (as long as the TRIM command is supported in the system). | 22:55 |
| se7en | So by this logic it is desirable to have unpartitioned free space as part of the overprovisioning setup in addition to any NRAM the manufacturer has provided. In my research of SSDs, this looked to be optimal at 15%. This information may have predated NVRAM additions to SSDs though. As I said, I was finding a large amount of outdated information. I do not know the amount of overprovison NVRAM that | 22:56 |
| se7en | has been put into this drive | 22:56 |
| se7en | afk | 22:57 |
| fsmithred | anyway, you should have a small esp partition, maybe 64-500MB, root partition 10-30GB, swap partition equal to RAM | 22:58 |
| fsmithred | shit, I meant to erase that ^^^ | 22:59 |
| fsmithred | fuck the swap. 120MB is plenty unless you hibernate | 22:59 |
| fsmithred | sounds like they're talking about unused filesystem space, not unpartitioned space. | 23:01 |
| fsmithred | and separate /boot partition that's maybe 500MB | 23:02 |
| fsmithred | the rest for /home | 23:03 |
| se7en | Oic. Still, isn't it a good thing to make sure you don't use that space byt having it unavailabile to the system anyway? | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | se7en, it's not clear to me where that OP space is. | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | or what needs to happen with it. | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | I used all available space on two evos and one cheap crucial ssd. We'll see how long they last. It's been about a year for the evos and the crucial was used a lot for two or three years. It still works. | 23:34 |
| se7en | It seems that it's blank space that functions similar to SWAP to serve as a temporary buffer to move data around on the drive and optimize memory | 23:34 |
| fsmithred | cheap= the one that has no heat sink | 23:34 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
