| latex | it worked but it's borked now | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| latex | Maybe I need to restart | 00:01 |
| latex | I installed pipewire, the uninstalled it, installed jack, pulseaudio | 00:01 |
| latex | Lots of things | 00:01 |
| gnarface | if the last time it worked was before updating to daedalus completely, also try removing the mumble client config | 00:02 |
| gnarface | could just be choking on an old version of its own config | 00:02 |
| latex | I wiped mumble config several times | 00:02 |
| gnarface | oh | 00:02 |
| gnarface | hmm | 00:02 |
| gnarface | tried other servers? could be the server is out of date too... | 00:02 |
| latex | I host the server | 00:03 |
| gnarface | oh, hmmm | 00:04 |
| gnarface | alright, you're probably right then it's probably about whatever you did to your audio stack | 00:04 |
| appz_ | helio! | 00:17 |
| gnarface | hey appz_, it's a slow channel so just ask your questions | 00:19 |
| gnarface | someone will answer eventually | 00:19 |
| latex | which file does display managers and/or XFCE run when startup? | 00:35 |
| latex | .profile and .bash_profile never get ran | 00:35 |
| latex | idk why | 00:35 |
| latex | so which file does get ran? | 00:35 |
| latex | which file should I write all the logic into instead? | 00:35 |
| latex | The logic to start my jack server | 00:36 |
| gnarface | latex: yes, i'm aware that some of the desktop environments are exceptionally badly behaved and don't run the shell startup scripts because they wrongfully believe they're not actually a shell. in those cases the desktop usually has its own built-in startup services feature. (i recommend you just add your bash profile to that) | 00:37 |
| gnarface | (it probably won't be a file, it will probably be a graphical menu, but i'm not sure if that's always the case) | 00:40 |
| latex | also how do I make bash/shell run a command and then if the shell gets closed the command keeps running no matter what | 00:42 |
| latex | nohup? | 00:42 |
| latex | disown doesn't work | 00:42 |
| hagbard | nohup is what you want | 00:43 |
| latex | idk it behaves weird | 00:44 |
| latex | omg it works | 00:45 |
| Afdal | uh | 01:08 |
| Afdal | wait | 01:08 |
| Afdal | Does fail2ban depend on systemd? | 01:09 |
| Afdal | what the heck? | 01:09 |
| Afdal | The following additional packages will be installed: | 01:12 |
| Afdal | python3-systemd | 01:12 |
| Afdal | what is this... | 01:12 |
| gnarface | maybe it just comes with systemd startup files for free? | 01:16 |
| FatPhil | Afdal: fail2ban does not depend on shystermd | 01:29 |
| FatPhil | fail2ban may have become so over-engineered that I have promised myself I will rewrite a back-to-basics version. But my criticism of it was never the poettering cancer | 01:31 |
| Afdal | what's this python3 dependency then | 01:31 |
| Afdal | with systemd in its name | 01:32 |
| FatPhil | lennart's not python | 01:32 |
| Afdal | :} | 01:32 |
| FatPhil | Python's fucking microsoft! | 01:32 |
| Afdal | So is Poettering! | 01:33 |
| FatPhil | Add dollar symbols to that insult if you need. (Oh, and OT chat should be in #devuan-offtopic) | 01:34 |
| gnarface | Afdal: there's lots of systemd cruft still in the distro. whatever it is, it's probably harmless. you can check the package file contents with: dpkg -L python3-systemd | 01:34 |
| FatPhil | Afdal: good catch | 01:35 |
| FatPhil | oooh, I just threw up a little in my mouth | 01:35 |
| FatPhil | ----> OT | 01:35 |
| Afdal | so umm | 01:36 |
| Afdal | If u don't mind me asking here | 01:36 |
| Afdal | What are some sane settings for fail2ban? | 01:36 |
| gnarface | Afdal: you sure that package is even required? i don't even have it installed here, but i use "--no-install-recommends" | 01:36 |
| Afdal | It's a dependency according to apt | 01:36 |
| gnarface | what happens if you run a simulated removal, what else gets removed? | 01:37 |
| Afdal | umm, apparently just python3-systemd | 01:39 |
| Afdal | no complaint about package breakage | 01:39 |
| Afdal | I'm really confused | 01:39 |
| gnarface | by default, apt will also install "recommended" dependencies | 01:39 |
| Afdal | This was required to install but raises no issues when removed? | 01:39 |
| gnarface | debian sets what is "recommended" | 01:39 |
| gnarface | you can disable it | 01:39 |
| FatPhil | Afdal: the defaults are pretty sane for f2b, but make sure you enable the relevant ones. | 01:41 |
| FatPhil | I've just had to add an extra filter to my non-standard ssh ports, but that's because I use non-standard ports through my firewall machine. | 01:42 |
| Afdal | how do you do that? | 01:42 |
| gnarface | Afdal: you can just tell sshd what port to use from the same config file | 01:43 |
| Afdal | oh I already do that | 01:43 |
| Afdal | err, "same config file"? | 01:43 |
| Afdal | same as what | 01:44 |
| Afdal | Oh, a fail2ban config file? | 01:44 |
| FatPhil | I just edited /etc/fail2ban/filter.d/sshd.conf and added a line for "Bad protocol version identification" errors | 01:44 |
| FatPhil | some idiot bot was hitting my ssh ports with httpd attacks | 01:45 |
| FatPhil | and another with gawd-knows-what attacks | 01:45 |
| gnarface | Afdal: no, sorry, i misread that, the file would be /etc/ssh/sshd_config | 01:45 |
| Afdal | Yeah I already ahve sshd_config setup | 01:45 |
| Afdal | I've just procrastinated setting up fail2ban for a while | 01:45 |
| FatPhil | it's part of my default install now. however, I want to rewrite my own | 01:46 |
| nm0i | Afdal: probably dependency for one fail2bans filters. | 01:46 |
| Afdal | I can't imagine fail2ban is a very complex program | 01:51 |
| FatPhil | back in 2003 it was simple, and then the decades turned (I made all that up) | 01:52 |
| FatPhil | creature feep is a real thing | 01:53 |
| Afdal | This seems really complicated to configure :( | 01:55 |
| Afdal | so many config files | 01:55 |
| Afdal | Is jail.conf the right file to edit or does Devuan try to do some overwriting of its own | 01:56 |
| Afdal | Or am I supposed to edit stuff in jail.d/ instead | 02:12 |
| Afdal | I guess I'll just follow this digitalocean guide | 02:14 |
| Afdal | They usually have good guides... usually... | 02:15 |
| FatPhil | I haven't worked out the best way of configuring it apart from just adding new rules/ | 02:48 |
| FatPhil | it's the best solution to the problem until I write my own | 02:49 |
| onefang | My problem with fail2ban is that it ... fails to ban. Unless I write my own rules for it. | 02:50 |
| Afdal | :c | 02:54 |
| jiggawatt | are you guys excited for the DEBIAN 12 release? | 06:19 |
| fluffywolf | no, we're excited for the devuan 5 release. | 06:19 |
| jiggawatt | that doesn't include systemd though | 07:30 |
| Afdal | Pretty sure turnaround between releases this time | 07:55 |
| Afdal | What's up with that | 07:55 |
| Afdal | pretty short* | 07:55 |
| gnarface | ls | 08:23 |
| gnarface | woops | 08:23 |
| gnarface | heh | 08:23 |
| onefang | Enter old password: | 08:24 |
| gnarface | :-p | 08:24 |
| juma[m] | Hello | 12:27 |
| temp64 | Hi, just installed Daedalus with OpenRC and looking at the scripts in /etc/init.d, they seem to be different from what OpenRC docs describe | 14:16 |
| temp64 | I'm trying to write a script that would load a bunch of files onto tmpfs at startup and back them up when shutting down | 14:16 |
| temp64 | Where do I begin? | 14:16 |
| fsmithred | temp64, openrc in debian and devuan uses sysvinit scripts by default. I don't know anything about openrc scripts, but there are a few people who hang out on the forum who use openrc. Search for relevant discussions at dev1galaxy.org. | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | and also stay logged in here - someone may answer later | 14:19 |
| temp64 | that explains a lot | 14:20 |
| temp64 | i'm a bit confused though, i see both /etc/runlevels and /etc/rc#.d directories. if i were to write a sysvinit script, should it be configured with update-rc.d or rc-update? | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | update-rc.d is used for sysvinit scripts. It creates the links to the rc.N directories | 14:56 |
| fsmithred | rcN.d | 14:56 |
| hacksenwerk | What is the equivalent of systemctl suspend on devuan? | 18:14 |
| hacksenwerk | I ran daedalus live to secure erase a ssd and I need to chnage its frozen status. | 18:14 |
| hacksenwerk | Is there any? | 18:21 |
| buZz | doesnt systemctl suspend affect the system | 18:23 |
| buZz | and not the ssd? | 18:23 |
| buZz | i dont know what it does | 18:23 |
| buZz | for suspending to disk, i use 'echo disk > /sys/power/state' | 18:24 |
| buZz | aka 'hibernating' | 18:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | pm-suspend if you have pm-utils? | 18:25 |
| buZz | 'echo mem > /sys/power/state' for suspend to ram | 18:27 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: it is a proper way to hcnage the frozen status of an ssd | 18:27 |
| buZz | hacksenwerk: whats a 'frozen status of a ssd' ? | 18:28 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: it bloocks you from doing a secure erase | 18:28 |
| hacksenwerk | *blocks | 18:28 |
| buZz | how so? | 18:28 |
| hacksenwerk | I don't know. :) | 18:28 |
| buZz | oh, something in SMART? | 18:28 |
| hacksenwerk | when you run hdparm -I /some/device you can see at the bottom some atributes | 18:29 |
| buZz | supported: enhanced erase | 18:29 |
| hacksenwerk | To do a secure erase the ssd must not be frozen, locked | 18:29 |
| buZz | 2min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 8min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT. | 18:30 |
| buZz | i guess those? | 18:30 |
| hacksenwerk | yes that must be there too | 18:30 |
| hacksenwerk | and therefor you must set a password first (don't ask me why xD) | 18:30 |
| buZz | honestly never cared enough for any of this :D | 18:30 |
| buZz | i dont sell used storage devices, i store them 'forever' :P | 18:30 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: it is the only way to delete a ssd | 18:30 |
| buZz | i dont delete them, i keep them | 18:30 |
| temp64 | managed to figure out my openrc tmpfs backup and i feel like i wasted way too much time on it: https://dpaste.org/oPeX0 | 18:31 |
| hacksenwerk | or pull out all its charge i guess xD | 18:31 |
| onefang | Grinders and volcanoes work just as well. B-) | 18:31 |
| hacksenwerk | onefang: lol | 18:31 |
| buZz | onefang: haha indeed | 18:31 |
| hacksenwerk | I wouldn't sell mine too, even not after a secure erase. I don't trust flash storages. | 18:31 |
| buZz | then why are you doing this? | 18:32 |
| hacksenwerk | Because of course there can be blocks marked as bad or reserved and not get erased anyway. | 18:32 |
| buZz | i mean, whats the gain? | 18:32 |
| hacksenwerk | Maybe someone will get this ssd someday. | 18:32 |
| buZz | so you are selling it? | 18:33 |
| buZz | or at least, transferring ownership of it | 18:33 |
| hacksenwerk | I secure erase it and then leave it unplugged and hopefully it will get totally uncharged | 18:33 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: no. | 18:33 |
| buZz | eh, no, it wont ever loose its 'charge' | 18:33 |
| buZz | NAND without charge is just dead | 18:33 |
| hacksenwerk | but how can you know what happens tomorrow or in the next seconds. ;) | 18:33 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: All ssd lose charge some quick some need more time and your data will be lost | 18:34 |
| hacksenwerk | That's the main reason why they suck. | 18:34 |
| buZz | lol, ok buddy | 18:34 |
| buZz | try a 30 year old SD card | 18:34 |
| buZz | they'll have data :) | 18:34 |
| buZz | same tech | 18:34 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: I don't have any, they die before getting 30 years old... | 18:34 |
| hacksenwerk | nah it is not the same tech | 18:35 |
| buZz | yes, NAND is the same tech as NAND | 18:35 |
| hacksenwerk | an ssd is not only NAND there is more hardware in it :p | 18:35 |
| buZz | the FLASH is NAND | 18:35 |
| buZz | just like a SD card | 18:35 |
| buZz | btw SD card has a controller internally too | 18:35 |
| hacksenwerk | anyway you have a 30 years sd card? | 18:36 |
| buZz | yeah, 32MB etc | 18:36 |
| hacksenwerk | and unplugged it 30 years ago | 18:36 |
| hacksenwerk | I wouldn't trust electric storage, no matter what kind. | 18:36 |
| buZz | ok? | 18:36 |
| hacksenwerk | I even do not trust my HDD with CMR | 18:36 |
| buZz | pen and paper is cool | 18:36 |
| hacksenwerk | rigth! | 18:36 |
| hacksenwerk | books | 18:36 |
| buZz | writing | 18:36 |
| buZz | drawing | 18:37 |
| hacksenwerk | That's a reliable source and it is proved over a long time. | 18:37 |
| hacksenwerk | And crafting art too. | 18:37 |
| buZz | alexandria probably has a different stance ;) | 18:37 |
| hacksenwerk | pottery | 18:37 |
| hacksenwerk | If everything goes worse we will be the first culture that left nearly no information to future generations. | 18:38 |
| hacksenwerk | Except plastic trash everywhere, wow we are so damn cool... | 18:38 |
| buZz | archive.org is cool | 18:38 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: | 18:38 |
| hacksenwerk | yup | 18:39 |
| hacksenwerk | but non-digital archives are better | 18:39 |
| buZz | are you a paying member of your local library? | 18:39 |
| hacksenwerk | graving things onto some ceramic plates and store it in a mountain for example | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: sure | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | and you? | 18:40 |
| buZz | its free here | 18:40 |
| buZz | gov pays | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | Yeah it is free here too | 18:40 |
| buZz | they do fundraising every now and then, but i dont really care much for it | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | You can got there and read everything, listen to music even gaming | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | But if you want to take it home you need to pay a bit | 18:40 |
| buZz | they dont really have a cool collection anyway | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | but it is very cheap | 18:40 |
| hacksenwerk | I pay 12€ a year | 18:41 |
| hacksenwerk | and can also use a very cool streaming service | 18:41 |
| hacksenwerk | similar to netflix but more focused on independent and older productions, but not only | 18:41 |
| hacksenwerk | gosh! | 18:42 |
| hacksenwerk | we are in #devuan | 18:42 |
| hacksenwerk | o0 | 18:42 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: -> #devuan-offtopic | 18:42 |
| hacksenwerk | sixwheeledbeast: I will try pm-utils thank you | 18:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | if you don't care about damage just shred it. | 18:45 |
| hacksenwerk | pm-suspend works | 18:48 |
| hacksenwerk | but I think echo mem > /sys/power/state is even better because I do not need to install any additional stuff :) | 18:49 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: Thanks for that command | 18:49 |
| buZz | yw ;) | 18:49 |
| hacksenwerk | And I found out another way: close the lid xD | 18:51 |
| hacksenwerk | But that is something I don't want by default for my Installation of devuan | 18:52 |
| hacksenwerk | On the live it is default too | 18:52 |
| hacksenwerk | *minimal live system | 18:52 |
| hacksenwerk | But the live system is awesome, I love it! | 18:53 |
| hacksenwerk | It is so fast. | 18:54 |
| hacksenwerk | Only thing I need to figure out again how to change the keybpoard layout, because I mostly forgot the places where what is on the us layout. | 18:55 |
| hacksenwerk | - is / but where is ' ? | 18:55 |
| hacksenwerk | x) | 18:55 |
| buZz | ' is next to return | 18:56 |
| djph | ? is /, ' is " | 18:56 |
| djph | wait, that doesn't help non-us, nvm :/ | 18:56 |
| hacksenwerk | I use this when I get in trouble: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_States-NoAltGr.svg | 19:00 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: My english lacks sometime... return _is_ enter | 19:06 |
| buZz | yes | 19:06 |
| hacksenwerk | I thought it was Backspace because in german Backspace is called Rücktaste. And the word return can be translated with Rückkehr... language confusion stuff x) | 19:08 |
| hacksenwerk | Word Twister Party in my head. | 19:08 |
| buZz | yeah german really limited itself by not using international terms for international things | 19:08 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 19:09 |
| hacksenwerk | sure :p | 19:09 |
| buZz | store that on your fastplatter | 19:09 |
| buZz | ;) | 19:09 |
| hacksenwerk | fastplatter = Festplatte? :) | 19:13 |
| hacksenwerk | Fest = Hard, Platte = plate ;D | 19:14 |
| buZz | genau | 19:14 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 19:14 |
| buZz | yeah it doesnt have to be accurate | 19:14 |
| hacksenwerk | :D | 19:14 |
| hacksenwerk | Just enough accurate to confuse someone. | 19:15 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: I remember reading, about that decharging of flash storages. It can be that all your files are still there, but they are maybe compromised, damaged whatever. I think best choice is to hash everything on a flash storage, before store it somewhere and differ the hashes before suing it again. | 19:29 |
| hacksenwerk | *using | 19:29 |
| hacksenwerk | or suing x) | 19:30 |
| hacksenwerk | "Please SSD give me my data back!" | 19:30 |
| buZz | watch this talk ; https://hackaday.com/2013/12/29/hacking-sd-card-flash-memory-controllers/ | 19:32 |
| buZz | its really good and indepth | 19:32 |
| hacksenwerk | buZz: hmm... that youtube link is broken. Here's is a reliable one and it is also google free: https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5294_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291400_-_the_exploration_and_exploitation_of_an_sd_memory_card_-_bunnie_-_xobs | 19:38 |
| buZz | coolio | 19:39 |
| hacksenwerk | :) | 19:41 |
| temp64 | where can i find guides on packaging my own stuff? | 20:08 |
| temp64 | or rather, should i just follow debian tutorials and assume most things work the same on devuan? | 20:09 |
| buZz | temp64: indeed, its 99.999% the same | 20:11 |
| temp64 | k | 20:12 |
| rpgguest7098 | this might be more of a "#devuan-user" question but have any of you managed to get firefox-esr to see a microphone or alsa loopback device withour PA? i was hoping apulse might help but that seems output-only. | 20:35 |
| golinux | golinux has never used PA for anything | 22:09 |
| golinux | since jessie | 22:09 |
| debdog | how does one listen to music without a power amplifier? | 22:11 |
| ted-ious | Is devuan going to move to pipewire by default? | 22:16 |
| debdog | oopsie, delete my message. I thought I were talking in #OT | 22:18 |
| fsmithred | ted-ious, we inherit everything from debian that doesn't require systemd. (inherit = use unchanged) | 22:29 |
| fsmithred | (including their servers) | 22:30 |
| gnarface | rpgguest7098: i wasn't able to figure it out either. i'm not sure it's possible. do you see any error? | 22:40 |
| rpgguest7098 | gnarface: no firefox just doesn't support alsa microphone/input, and apulse doesn't provide it. somebody got to get down and fix it | 22:46 |
| rpgguest7098 | alternately it'd be nice to have a client for this webrtc screencasting that doesn't require a full browser, but that's a big stack of obscure undocumented and new tech | 22:47 |
| gnarface | rpgguest7098: weird though, because pulseaudio is supposed to emulate alsa for this type of thing, so it's weird that one would work but not the other | 22:47 |
| gnarface | (seeing the same problem here myself, but i have a lot of driver issues plaguing me typically so i can't always be sure it's not just my problem) | 22:48 |
| rpgguest7098 | i'll see if the apulse author has any thoughts | 22:48 |
| gnarface | if you can get him to tell you how to make apulse work for full duplex that'd be sweet too | 22:48 |
| gnarface | i'm assuming it just isn't that complex though | 22:49 |
| gnarface | i would also want apulse to mimic the network-streaming feature of pulseaudio that Steam relies on for remote-play but i'm sure that's asking more of it than it is capable of delivering | 22:49 |
| gnarface | and btw, for whatever it's worth, for firefox-esr on daedalus i still don't need pulseaudio or apulse for output | 22:51 |
| rpgguest7098 | right, at least for output, firefox can do alsa. they just didn't implement input. | 22:51 |
| gnarface | they would have had to literally write extra code to block it, but nothing would surprise me about them these days | 22:53 |
| gnarface | you don't happen to be using the snd-hda-intel driver for audio do you? | 22:53 |
| rpgguest7098 | i am not | 22:54 |
| rpgguest7098 | i've setup alsa for loopback. very handy | 22:54 |
| gnarface | someone did teach me how to use the loopback device to substitute the network play feature for Steam but it hasn't proven useful for this | 22:55 |
| rpgguest7098 | it'd be nice if alsamixer could mute those loopback inputs. maybe there's a way | 22:57 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure that there's not | 22:57 |
| gnarface | never needed to | 22:58 |
| gnarface | do they show up in alsamixer -c #? | 22:58 |
| gnarface | interesting. they show up for me with a volume control for output but no mute and no controls on input at all | 22:59 |
| rpgguest7098 | oh i was wrong. if you F6 select sound card you get a volume for loopback device | 22:59 |
| gnarface | volume but no mute toggle, and no input control at all though. i wonder if you could use the softvol plugin to force a mute control on them? | 23:00 |
| rpgguest7098 | mute would be nice yes | 23:00 |
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