| ecxod | I just wonder if you could write a program that acts as a kind of proxy and converts systemd commands | 01:35 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | yes, and it has been done, but that just puts you in an arms race with them, and not all the functionality is even desirable | 01:37 |
| golinux | We have elogind which does justthat but some packages are immune to using it | 01:37 |
| ecxod | similar to the sendmail command. | 01:37 |
| ecxod | postfix for example also provides this for compatibility purposes | 01:37 |
| golinux | It was a decision made by Debian devs not to require init compatibility | 01:38 |
| * golinux goes to look for dasein's post on the Debian forum | 01:39 | |
| golinux | “Combating revisionist history” by | 01:40 |
| golinux | dasein, Debian User Forums, February | 01:40 |
| golinux | 25, 2015: https://forums.debian.net/ | 01:40 |
| golinux | viewtopic.php?t=120652 | 01:40 |
| golinux | https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=120652 | 01:41 |
| golinux | ecxod: That will tell you everything you need to know | 01:41 |
| ecxod | what strange url is this? | 01:42 |
| golinux | I copied it out of Linux Pro Magazine and forgot to reformat it | 01:43 |
| golinux | https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=120652 is a post on the Debian forum about init compatibility decisions in Debian. It is why we are in the current mess | 01:44 |
| ecxod | https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.%E2%80%8Bphp?%E2%80%8Bt=120652 | 01:44 |
| ecxod | there are special chars in it | 01:45 |
| golinux | In your irc client not mine | 01:45 |
| rrq | ecxod: just remove those triplets starting with % to get "the real" url | 01:47 |
| ecxod | I was able | 01:48 |
| golinux | It is an excellent analysis of what went down and why Devuan exists | 01:49 |
| ecxod | I must push it to deepl because it is to high for my poor english (I am german native) | 01:49 |
| golinux | Too bad . . . dasein has formidable language skills | 01:50 |
| gnarface | i would think that translate.google.com can do a pretty good job on english<->german these days | 01:50 |
| gnarface | ecxod: ^ | 01:50 |
| golinux | Probably . . . | 01:50 |
| ecxod | deepl.com is the best for me | 01:51 |
| gnarface | oh, never heard of that one | 01:51 |
| ecxod | very popular in germany. | 01:52 |
| gnarface | i really just meant to suggest you use any translation software. i didn't understand that you were saying you'd already done that. | 01:53 |
| ecxod | in germany we say "strong tobacco" | 02:09 |
| ecxod | What is the debian GR ? | 02:15 |
| gnarface | i wanna say "general resolution" | 02:16 |
| gnarface | basically just their voting process, i think | 02:17 |
| ecxod | who exactly payed the development of systemd ? | 02:17 |
| gnarface | RedHat/IBM | 02:17 |
| gnarface | (also behind the likes of pulseaudio, network-manager, avahi-daemon) | 02:18 |
| ecxod | and who wrote the specifications ? | 02:19 |
| gnarface | don't know, but i assume Lennart Pottering | 02:19 |
| gnarface | and it all seems to have been primarily done as a long con to get himself a job at Microsoft | 02:20 |
| onefang | Is this a long con so someone will remind you to use #devuan-offtopic? | 02:21 |
| gnarface | sorry, you're right. | 02:21 |
| gnarface | ecxod: this is getting well off topic, but it's partially my fault, i apologize for encouraging it. | 02:21 |
| gnarface | we can gripe in #devuan-offtopic, this channel is supposed to be for technical support issues | 02:22 |
| brocashelm | i replaced elogind with dummy-logind so that the elogind daemon does not run, while i get to keep software like network-manager and everything under the kde umbrella (only need kolourpaint, but sure, install 150+ "dependencies") | 02:34 |
| brocashelm | i use consolekit2 | 02:34 |
| brocashelm | using startx, i put exec startxfce4 --with-ck-launch on ~/.xinitrc; no complaints | 02:34 |
| brocashelm | to be brutally honest, if you're using elogind, you might as well just go back to systemd, since it's essentially the same animal | 02:34 |
| brocashelm | you'll just have a different init and sysvinit as your service manager | 02:35 |
| brocashelm | seatd can be installed optionally | 02:35 |
| gnarface | i'm worried seatd will be the next thing they'll try to slowly force to become non-optional though | 02:37 |
| gnarface | there's really literally no point in having it unless you are sharing a workstation with other people | 02:37 |
| brocashelm | agreed. even after removing it, having some continued libseat permission errors on one of my systems (when xorg starts up; i'm still able to proceed) | 02:42 |
| gnarface | yea, i get those too now | 02:44 |
| gnarface | i wonder if it's simple to rebuild xorg to just not look for it again | 02:45 |
| gnarface | or if maybe even better yet you could just disable it from the xorg.conf | 02:45 |
| gnarface | that would be... somewhat relieving anyway | 02:45 |
| brocashelm | yeah | 02:52 |
| brocashelm | the fuckup was adding the _seatd user group because i read somewhere it was a way to optimize it (such as for video group) | 02:52 |
| brocashelm | although i suppose i don't need it. xfce can still work without elogind as it is. just when xfce4-session-logout is run (such as alt+f4 if you have xfwm4), i only get the log out from the options (rest being reboot and shut down) | 02:53 |
| brocashelm | however, i got a similar setup on openbsd and can still reboot or shut down at my convenience, and consolekit2 is used | 02:53 |
| darwin | buZz, no I do not | 03:30 |
| buZz | oh, guess i misunderstood, sry | 03:34 |
| look1245 | Hi, fresh devuan install and /usr/sbin is not in $PATH. What could be the cause of this and how is the best way to fix it? | 15:06 |
| djph | /sbin and /usr/sbin are not in a user's $PATH. They're for use by root. | 15:08 |
| look1245 | Theyre not in roots path either | 15:09 |
| gnarface | look1245: /etc/login.defs | 15:14 |
| gnarface | you can add them back to ENV_SUPATH in that file | 15:15 |
| gnarface | you'll have to log out and back in for changes to take effect | 15:15 |
| djph | huh, I didn't do anything special to my root ... | 15:32 |
| gnarface | i think it only happens on fresh installs, not upgrades | 15:37 |
| djph | huh, this was a fresh install of chimaera ... | 15:38 |
| gnarface | hmm | 15:38 |
| djph | daedalus now ... but maybe I did have to kick it and just forgot ... | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | djph, you sure you didn't change anything? | 15:38 |
| rrq | it's some few years when util-linux changed to us an implementaion of su that does not change PATH unless the "-" (aka "-l" aka "--login") is used | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | Or do you normally use 'su -' to get root? | 15:38 |
| djph | rrq: oh, that'd do it then. | 15:38 |
| djph | fsmithred: yeah, I've used su - for ... well, since before Ascii | 15:39 |
| fsmithred | that will also move you to /root. But I like to stay where I am, which is what 'su' does. | 15:40 |
| fsmithred | to keep the old behavior: echo 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' >> /etc/default/su | 15:40 |
| fsmithred | s/keep/get/ | 15:41 |
| fsmithred | or restore | 15:41 |
| djph | fsmithred: fair enough. it's one of those things I got ingrained forever ago | 15:41 |
| djph | I'll probably change around the time I start using 'apt' instead of 'apt-get' (so ... never ;) ) | 15:41 |
| fsmithred | lol | 15:42 |
| look1245 | How to disable login prompt? i fresh installed debian with mate and i want to login in a tty and manually startx not having a graphical login prompt | 15:55 |
| look1245 | Devuan* | 15:56 |
| look1245 | Ok seems like that is done by removing lightdm | 16:00 |
| look1245 | When i shutdown it says "error apparmor failed to stop" what could be the cause of this? | 16:09 |
| komasanzura | hello, good day | 19:20 |
| komasanzura | i have noticed the links to the mailing list archives return 404 | 19:20 |
| komasanzura | eg http://mailinglists.dyne.org/pipermail/devuan-announce/ | 19:21 |
| fsmithred | komasanzura, where did you get that link? Try this one: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/list/ | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | wait, that doesn't have what you want. | 19:28 |
| komasanzura | the link comes from here: https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-announce | 19:29 |
| fsmithred | and the last announcement (via the lurker link) is for Beowulf. Something is wrong. | 19:31 |
| komasanzura | i also tried subscribing to the dng mailing list but haven't received any e-mail yet | 19:43 |
| * grayrock decides against saying "i didn't even know dogs could read" | 22:04 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!