| unclouded | Sorry, I asked this last year and didn't write it down, what's the street address for donations? Our bank won't let us make an international transfer without supplying a postal address. | 04:58 |
|---|---|---|
| mason | unclouded: https://www.devuan.org/os/donate noted that it goes through Dyne, and https://dyne.org/ has something that... might? be an address: Haparandadam 7-A1 1013AK Amsterdam | 05:18 |
| mason | notes* | 05:18 |
| mason | And https://www.linkedin.com/company/dyne-org/about/ shows Haparandadam 7-A1, Amsterdam, Noord-Holland 1013AK, NL but now I'm thinking you might want to get a Dyne person to confirm something live. | 05:20 |
| mason | jaromil: ^ | 05:20 |
| unclouded | Thanks heaps mason, Google maps seems to think that it's a legit address | 05:25 |
| mason | unclouded: I'd still want to get someone to confirm, assuming the bank is sending a check. If it's electronic, maybe it doesn't matter as much. | 05:26 |
| unclouded | That's going on the wiki for next year. | 05:26 |
| mason | kk | 05:26 |
| joerg | watch out for fraudulent SEPA debiting! | 07:32 |
| joerg | publishing bank account details needs some considerations to not get trapped by that | 07:33 |
| joerg | companies like only streaming services do very sparse if _any_ checking if the bank account some cheaters provide is really theirs | 07:36 |
| joerg | online* streaming... | 07:36 |
| joerg | no fun to manually roll back a 30 fraudulent SEPA debits every day... | 07:44 |
| joerg | I at times spent an hour per day just rejecting fake netflix debits | 08:58 |
| fsmithred | unclouded, yes, it's a real address, but the dyne office is no longer there. | 09:38 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if there's a physical address for mail. Check with jaromil | 09:39 |
| jirib | gnarface: i will try devuan stable; i haven't had time for that yet | 09:44 |
| cousin_luigi | joerg: How does that work? | 10:57 |
| cousin_luigi | Legitimate companies charging for things you don't owe? Or outright scammers? | 10:58 |
| joerg | scammers filling order forms at e.g. Netflix with *your* bank account details, to get immediate access to the service offered. For a maybe one or two weeks. And $Netflix obviously doesn't care when a hundreds of purchases use the same Name and bank account details IBAN, Number) for payment, not even when it fails again and again and again | 13:13 |
| joerg | and your bank tells you "when you *did not* order that withdrawal then please do a rollback" which costs at least 5 minutes of your time and you got only 4 or 8 weeks to do it, then it's considered "accepted" and legit | 13:15 |
| buZz | some banks even shorter | 13:16 |
| joerg | you probably _could_ forbid ALL SEPA debits on your account, but then you might need a second account for payments you do, and use that - I call it inbound account - only for donations/payments TO you | 13:21 |
| buZz | i like revolut's 'disposable SEPA/IBAN accounts' | 13:21 |
| buZz | you could make a seperate one per invoice thing, hacked? close it | 13:21 |
| joerg | prolly illegal in Germany | 13:56 |
| joerg | or wait, as long as the bank knows your identity, it's maybe no problem | 13:57 |
| joerg | disposable != anonymous | 13:58 |
| joerg | buZz: however that doesn't _really_ target the problem with publishing your bank account details, right? | 14:28 |
| buZz | joerg: it does prevent abuse, which imho is all the need | 17:44 |
| jirib | hi, GDM does not start on daedalus with runit | 19:42 |
| jirib | startx starts gnome fine | 19:43 |
| rwp | jirib, I don't know about gdm in particular but as a general statement all of GNOME is unavailable without systemd. And that's just the compromise that has been made. Since Devuan does not have systemd we all use one of the other xdm X Display Managers such as slim or lightdm. | 19:46 |
| jirib | i have dbus and elogind running | 19:46 |
| rwp | I am very happy for you. | 19:46 |
| jirib | on other non-systemd distros like voidlinux that's enough for gdm to start | 19:47 |
| rwp | I can say that runit will run native runit scripts if present and if not will fall back to running the legacy init scripts if they are present. Do you have the legacy init scripts for gdm installed? | 19:49 |
| jirib | you mean /etc/init.d/gdm3 ? | 19:50 |
| rwp | Yes. | 19:50 |
| jirib | i have it | 19:50 |
| rwp | Many people do not know that for a lot of the legacy init scripts that they need to install orphan-sysvinit-scripts in order to get a back-fill of them. | 19:50 |
| jirib | it seems the issue is with seats... "EE) [libseat/backend/seatd.c:66] Could not connect to socket /run/seatd.sock: Permission denied" | 19:51 |
| rwp | What happens if you run "/etc/init.d/gdm3" yourself from the command line from the vt console terminal? | 19:51 |
| rwp | Race condition response. You just gave me the answer to the question that came afterward. | 19:51 |
| rwp | You might try running seatd instead of elogind? I don't know. I am just brainstorming with you here. | 19:52 |
| rwp | A couple of years back when things were much worse I dropped running lightdm/slim myself and went back to starting X from the command line. That was the way I always used to do it before. It's just easier. Avoided the problem entirely. (shrug). I have just never returned to starting an xdm layer. | 19:53 |
| jirib | lightdm works fine; i'm just testing devuan... | 19:57 |
| rwp | If lightdm works then why bother with gdm? Devuan has defaulted to slim in newer installations now. | 20:01 |
| rwp | "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this with my arm." Doctor says, "Then don't do that!" | 20:01 |
| msiism | When using seatd, is it possible to run two X sessions in parallel? | 20:25 |
| gnarface | it's possible to run two X sessions in parallel even without seatd | 20:27 |
| sfox | no, you have to install legd and configure seatd to use it | 20:27 |
| gnarface | sfox: :-p | 20:27 |
| gnarface | msiism: he's joking | 20:27 |
| msiism | More stricly speaking, I mean X sessions by two different users. | 20:27 |
| gnarface | yea, that's the default behavior | 20:28 |
| sfox | ;p | 20:28 |
| gnarface | i'm not even sure what seatd is actually for, but i suspect maybe so two users can share the same X session | 20:28 |
| gnarface | (which seems like a catastrophically bad idea) | 20:28 |
| sfox | You don't need seatd to do that. X is just a display server. Just open a new vty (cntrl-alt-Fn) and run X :n | 20:29 |
| gnarface | yea, just, each user, log into a VT and run startx | 20:29 |
| sfox | just make sure the Xserver number running on the same host doesn't conflict. :0 is usually used for the first | 20:29 |
| gnarface | usually it's smart enough to iterate on its own if nobody specifies | 20:29 |
| sfox | you can start more Xservers by adjusting /etc/inittab to spawn an Xserver instead of a getty | 20:29 |
| gnarface | and if running suid root the log files will also iterate Xorg.*.log | 20:29 |
| sfox | (a getty is the login prompt thing) | 20:30 |
| gnarface | sfox: oh, interesting idea | 20:30 |
| sfox | that's the original *UNIX way of doing it | 20:30 |
| sfox | system-v | 20:30 |
| gnarface | i never really considered starting something other than a getty in there | 20:30 |
| msiism | That's what I did up until now (running X in two different VTs via startx). Now that I've installed seatd, that doesn't work anymore for one of the users. | 20:30 |
| msiism | The errors I get are these: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/b2eaab39 | 20:30 |
| gnarface | msiism: oh, damn. hmm... well to be honest i'd just disable seatd and ignore the errors, lol | 20:31 |
| sfox | you need to run a display manager (like a graphical getty) on the other Xserver | 20:31 |
| sfox | XDM is the default | 20:31 |
| sfox | You can do it in .xinitrc | 20:31 |
| msiism | And if I would like to avoid having to do that? | 20:32 |
| sfox | in inittab specify a custom xinitrc file | 20:32 |
| sfox | why would you avoid doing that? | 20:32 |
| sfox | are you running your Xclients on a different host? | 20:32 |
| msiism | No, I just don't see any reason to use a login manager. | 20:33 |
| sfox | how else are you going to start a user session? | 20:33 |
| sfox | is it having to login that's the problem? | 20:34 |
| msiism | Login on a VT, run startx, or have it run form ~/.xinitrc right away. | 20:34 |
| sfox | if so, you can use slim as your display manager and configure it to auto login | 20:34 |
| sfox | oh | 20:34 |
| sfox | you don't have to do that | 20:34 |
| sfox | just editing your inittab to do it automaticlly | 20:34 |
| msiism | What would be done automatically after that, exactly? | 20:35 |
| sfox | btw, ~/.xinitrc while you can use it for setting up your session isn't meant for that. It's designed for initializing your Xserver. Things like color correction, xprops, and display power management go there | 20:35 |
| sfox | .xsession is for session stuff | 20:35 |
| sfox | window manager, env vars | 20:35 |
| sfox | the display manager is responsible for logging in users and running their ~/.xsession in their home directory | 20:36 |
| sfox | setting up magic cookies too | 20:36 |
| sfox | I mean MIT-cookies | 20:36 |
| sfox | take in look at slim's configuration file. it will make more sense | 20:37 |
| msiism | So, just running startx from VTs will not work for several users when I used seatd as the backend then? | 20:39 |
| sfox | if you want to start an Xserver from a nonpriviledged user you'll need to add them to the video group | 20:39 |
| sfox | and setup a .xinitrc for every user | 20:40 |
| sfox | or the global one in /etc | 20:40 |
| msiism | Okay, just seeing one of those users is not in the video group. | 20:41 |
| sfox | at the very least you'll want an xsession in the user's homedir to spawn a window manager. | 20:41 |
| msiism | I'm really just trying to replace elogind with seatd, by the way. Everythign already works outside of that. | 20:42 |
| sfox | it's an abstraction layer/shim to what your really trying to do, start x. If it's having problems well | 20:45 |
| sfox | check the permissions of /run/seatd.sock | 20:47 |
| msiism | Yeah, it's owned by the video group. | 20:48 |
| gnarface | recently they've moved all the video drivers except nvidia's (i think) to now default to running Xorg as the user, rather than suid to root as was the common default prior to that | 20:50 |
| gnarface | so now everyone needs to be in the video group instead | 20:50 |
| gnarface | this change also relocates the Xorg logs from /var/log to ~/.local/share/xorg/ | 20:51 |
| msiism | Well, I was running X with startx for that other user who's not in the video group just fine before. | 20:52 |
| sfox | you know you could also do that by appending 2> ~/.wm.log to the end of the line that starts your window manager right? | 20:53 |
| * msiism goes to restart X… | 20:55 | |
| msiism | Okay, things seem to work just fine with seatd now. It also seems that my X session is brought up quite a bit quicker now. | 20:57 |
| msiism | I guess I probably still need elogind for certain software. | 20:58 |
| msiism | Oh yes, I do… | 20:59 |
| jirib | gnarface: good explaination of seats/elogind/... is at https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#whats-the-deal-with-elogind-and-systemd-logind | 21:01 |
| joerg | >><buZz> joerg: it does prevent abuse<< only when you provide personalized unique one-time-ACCT#, then yes, would be great. The bank account details don't need to get "hacked", as soon as you publish them they get abused and when you discard old details and publish new ones, then those get abused as well | 21:04 |
| joerg | very similar to your email address | 21:05 |
| buZz | right | 21:06 |
| buZz | sometimes i know before the company that their customer database got stolen | 21:07 |
| joerg | only worse since it actually is worth a nn € to exploit the recent details published on any website | 21:07 |
| ncurs3s | How do I change the localtime in Devuan? With systemd I'd use timedatectl | 23:17 |
| buZz | dpkg-reconfigure localtime | 23:18 |
| buZz | perhaps? | 23:18 |
| buZz | i am not sure what you mean by 'localtime' , just the locales? | 23:18 |
| ncurs3s | I don't have dpkg-reconfigure | 23:19 |
| ncurs3s | Just the "linux time" | 23:19 |
| buZz | are you running devuan? | 23:19 |
| ncurs3s | Yes | 23:19 |
| buZz | why not just sync to ntp? 'ntpdate ntp.bit.nl' | 23:19 |
| buZz | or other server | 23:19 |
| buZz | you should have dpkg-reconfigure, its in /sbin i think | 23:19 |
| buZz | /usr/sbin, sry | 23:20 |
| buZz | dpkg-reconfigure tzdata <-- is what i ment | 23:20 |
| buZz | to select the correct timezone | 23:20 |
| buZz | then after that you could do 'ntpdate ntp.bit.nl' or any other ntp server, or pool, to sync your clock to ntp | 23:21 |
| ncurs3s | I don't have ntupdate :p | 23:26 |
| ncurs3s | Searching for it yields no results and can't find it in sbin or /usr/sbin | 23:27 |
| gnarface | ncurs3s: as of daedalus it's been moved to the package ntpsec-ntpdate | 23:31 |
| gnarface | i think, anyway | 23:31 |
| gnarface | yea | 23:32 |
| gnarface | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=%5Entpsec-ntpdate%24&x=submit | 23:32 |
| ncurs3s | Thanks for the help! | 23:33 |
| ncurs3s | I've NEVER used SysV before. I'm just trying out Devuan for fun, so far, it seems really nice, just obviously have to learn a bit :) | 23:34 |
| gnarface | debian provides several ntp servers you can use, or you can just use the official main one at pool.ntp.org | 23:34 |
| gnarface | (or feel free to set up your own) | 23:35 |
| gnarface | i think debian's are named 0.debian.pool.ntp.org, 1.debian.pool.ntp.org, 2.debian.pool.ntp.org, 3.debian.pool.ntp.org | 23:36 |
| gnarface | if you install the ntp daemon it will use those by default | 23:36 |
| buZz | ncurs3s: i believe dpkg-anything is apt specific, not sysv | 23:47 |
| gnarface | yea, dpkg-reconfigure shouldn't be systemd dependent, but i think they've replaced tzdata with some systemd crap | 23:47 |
| buZz | oh nodoubt | 23:48 |
| buZz | likely generating a 15min timeout on bootup if you move timezone between boots? :P | 23:48 |
| buZz | uninterruptable ofcourse | 23:48 |
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