libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2022-10-04

FilipZ1rwp: As rrq mentioned, its the "Standard DHCP wirelsess setup", and before that, I have "auto lo", and "iface lo inet loopback"00:03
rwpI just now set up and tested the install guide chimaera network-configuration and it works here okay.00:03
FilipZ1rrq: How should I create this socket?00:04
FilipZ1rwp: It worked ok too to me, untill this happened00:04
FilipZ1It is rather a specific hardware related issue, I think.00:05
rwpInformation from my end of things:
rrqthe socket is created by the script but the directory is not00:29
rrqthe directory should be "drwxrx----" with root:netdev00:30
rrqwell, drwxr-x---00:31
rrqmmmm yes that directory gets created correctly on reboot, so I'm not sure this is a cause00:37
rrqrwp: yor setup presents two "hurdles".. firstly that only root can interact with wpa_supplicant, and secondly that it's fixed to a single access point00:55
rrqthe first hurdle is supposed to be addressed with the ctrl_interface=... line in the conf, including a GROUP=netdev setting00:57
rrqthe second is addressed with the "update_config=1" conf setting and using the wpa-roam feature, which opens up for using wpa_gui and wpi_cli01:01
FilipZ1rwp: on my side: 1. regardless interfaces file, I described it earlier. 2. I wrote the errors from ifup wlan0 at the beginning. 3. How the wpa_supplicant process that tries to turn on look in my case: "wpa_supplicant -s -B -P /run/ -i wlan0 -W -D nl80211,wext -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf". 4. Nothing in /run/01:02
FilipZ1contains "wpa" and nothing here changes when invoking ifup wlan001:02
rwprrq, It's not "my setup" it's the setup from network-configuration.html that you pointed me too.  I just replicated that and verified that it was working.01:03
rwpMy own setup does things differently.  I use either the wpa_supplicant instructions from that package or I manually launch everything.01:04
rwpBut as far as needing root for it...  Aren't we all root on our own systems?01:05
rwpI have to drop afk again for a bit...01:05
rrqFilipZ1: something is very odd... perhaps add "set -x" to /etc/wpa_supplicant/ to get a detailed log of its invocation,... is there something "odd" with "/run" ?01:07
FilipZ1rwp: But it was not "iface wlan0 inet dhcp01:08
FilipZ1        wpa-ssid myssidhere01:08
FilipZ1        wpa-psk mypassphrasehere", but "01:08
FilipZ1"auto wlan001:08
FilipZ1iface wlan0 inet manual01:08
FilipZ1    wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf01:08
FilipZ1iface default inet dhcp" and that is how it looks im my case, so not a single fixed AP01:08
FilipZ1And /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf contains exactly what is described on that page to have as well01:10
rrqyes, and I have the same (though working :))01:11
rrqplease check "mount | grep '/run '" .. should be tmpfs, rw, and mode=75501:13
rrqanother thing is that I run wpa_gui as non-root user, with that user being in netdev group01:21
rrqand note that when/if you add a user to a group, then that user must re-login for that to be in effect01:22
rrq(you may also use "newgrp" for actually bwing in the group with children processes to that shell)01:24
FilipZ1I just copied the ifup wlan0 output with verbosity of set -x . I may share it later, after leaving this problem state01:26
rrqjust to confirm: ifup and ifdown are used by root (only) but wpa_gui may be run by a non-root user who is in netdev group01:28
FilipZ1Yes, it does work like this to me too. wpa_gui runs with the non-root privileges01:30
rrq"ifup wlan0" __should__ work, esp following "ifdown --force wlan0"01:31
FilipZ1I did it like it, but with the previously mentioned errors, instead01:32
rrqif you want wore and deeper logging, you'd use "strace -f ifup wlan0" .. that log would very likely hide a needle of actual problem cause somewhere :)01:34
rrqhwo about "dpkg -l wpasupplicant" .. mine is 2:2.9.0-21 (amd64)01:37
FilipZ1"Mount | grep '/run'" output: "tmpfs on /run/ type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev, noexec,realtime,size=1625372k,mode=755)"01:44
FilipZ1And there are 3 lines more, the last beginning with "portal" instead of "tmpfs".01:45
rrqyes .. you missed the space '/run ' :)01:49
rrqoh wait01:50
rrqyour grep would need '/run/ '01:50
FilipZ1For the command beginning with "strace" I got the answer that it was not found.01:51
rrqanyhow, that's fine01:51
FilipZ1There earlier it was "/run", not "/run/", I wrote that incorrectly01:52
rrqok. fine anyhow... hmm .. do you have netdev group in /etc/group?01:53
FilipZ1And that space shouldn't matter, right?01:54
FilipZ1I will check01:54
rrqwell that space in the grep was for avoiding mounts within /run, with01:54
FilipZ1Right, so I get that I wouldn't get those 4 additional lines, this way. :)01:55
rrqyes that was the idea :)01:55
rrqI guess your non-root is in netdev so the group exists01:56
FilipZ1About the wpasupplicant version, my have the samu number02:00
rrqmmm so other than file access problem there is the device access.. maybe there is a problem there02:02
FilipZ1I do have the "netdev" group. It does refer to my user name here02:02
rrqdo you have networkmanager or something odd like that running?02:02
FilipZ1I removed it earlier and did apt purge and apt autoclean02:04
rrqyes if something else has got some lock on the wlan0 device... is "iwconfig wlan0" ok?02:05
FilipZ1I don't know. What should be the answer if its ok?02:06
FilipZ1IEEE 802.11 ESSID:off/any Mode:Managed  Access point: Not-Associated  Tx-Power=22 dBm  Retry short limit:7  RTS thr:off  Fragment thr:off  Power management:on02:10
FilipZ1With sudo it also prints "Encryption key:off"02:10
FilipZ1Oh, a "wlan0" before "IEEE", of course :)02:11
rrqok.. sorry I made an strace of my ifup .. got disconnected02:17
rrqbtw may I confirm that /etc/network/interfaces end with a newline02:19
FilipZ1Strace does not work to me. "Command not gound"02:19
rrqnot sure hoe that would stop wpa_supplicant from starting though02:19
FilipZ1Does the newline at the end of interfaces matter?02:20
rrqinstall "strace"02:20
rrqwithout it, the last line is not seen02:20
FilipZ1I do not have the newline at the end of interfaces file02:21
rrqwell, you can see the line, but programs often don't02:21
rrqok, add that newline and see if that makes any difference (keep it regardless)02:22
FilipZ1It still fails, so I guess it didn't02:24
FilipZ1But I keep it ofc02:25
rrqright, when/if you explore an strace dump, keep in mind that the error cause is somewhere well before the end, because it is followed by "successful" recovery and error message actions02:26
rrqif it's a file permission issue, then it'd be an "openat" call that fails when it should succeed02:27
FilipZ1I do not have the connection so I cannot install it, unless I restart my PC, leving this problem state02:27
rrqtrue. but it seems very peculiar that it ran for a while and then stopped working02:28
FilipZ1I didn't create that directory in /run yet. Should I try it now?02:29
rrqwell, try that, although I suspect that's not a cause02:29
rrqwhat does "df -h" say about /run ?02:30
* rrq biab02:31
FilipZ1tmpfs  1.6G  1.8M  1.6G  1%  /run02:32
FilipZ1"Filesystem  Size  Used  Avail  Use%  Mounted on"02:33
FilipZ1What is "biab"?02:34
fsmithredback in a bit (soon)02:39
FilipZ1From the content I can see that "set -x" was already here in some other place, I guess that it would be triggered by the addition of a proper flag. I will remove it now to not get additional output, since it shouldn't be needed with strace, right?02:42
FilipZ1Also, I think that I saw earlier the "Trace" verbosity flag, related to some network related deamon. Is it the same thing as "strace" here?02:45
anjanhi yall, should jellyfin work on devuan?02:47
rwpFilipZ1, I configured up the "roaming" configuration.  Here is my result with that config.
rwpanjan, I know nothing about jellyfin but it says it supports a bunch of software distros, does not say it requires systemd, so it should work on Devuan okay.03:01
rwpWhy don't you try it and then report back! :-)03:02
FilipZ1rrq: You wrote that the wpa_supplicant directory should be both in the group root and netdev, right?03:06
FilipZ1rrq: Creation of the wpa_supplicant directory didn't help03:15
FilipZ1With the 750 privileges, root owner, and netdev group owner.03:16
rrqright user root, group netdev ... that group is needed for not-root user operating it via wpa_gui03:32
rrqI wonder, is there an "old" wpa_supplicant running?03:37
rrqrwp's setup is fine aprat from not allowing non-root user operating via wpa_gui03:39
rwpI am just following the recipes from the posted wiki articles!  And I don't think sudo is that hard to use.  :-)03:46
rwpAlso I am pretty sure that roaming configuration doesn't need any triggering after it is online as wpa_supplicant then notices networks and automatically connects.03:47
rwpI am using i3 with the i3status tray and by default it reports the network connection status.  So I always can see connection status in the system tray area.03:48
rrqyes, manual fiddling is only needed if you are roaming among unknown access points03:50
rwpI set up multiple ones for the client as a test and it seems to automatically connect to any of them that it finds available.03:51
rwpThe priority seems rather random, probably just first seen is first tried.03:51
rwpIt also looks like this will solve a problem I have been seeing with my previous method of connecting to open access points.03:52
rrqI think unfortunately FilipZ1's issue is at a more fundamental level; something different in his setup from ours03:52
rwpI was previously using the Linux kernel internal driver saying "sudo iw dev wlan0 connect 'ssidnamehere'" and the kernel connecds.03:53
rwpIt works.  But if there is any glitch then the kernel simply reports "connection lost" and drops.  Needing a loop scriptlet to reconnect.03:53
rwpThe "roaming" config posted uses wpa_supplicant for it which knows to retry and should solve that issue of glitches dropping the connection.03:54
rwp"> something different in his setup from ours"  Yes.  Those are always the most difficult to debug.  Because the cause is always going to be unexpected.04:11
FilipZ1I want to download the package("strace", to be specific. The packsage manager doesn't tell about it having any more dependencies needing to be downloaded as well) separately, to upload it from another source to my pc, without the internet connection. Where exactly can I find a proper file to get?04:47
FilipZ1Nvm, found it04:51
rwpIf you need to do that often there is a package "apt-offline" designed for that type of airgap sneakernet transfer.04:54
gnarfacealright, now that i got the other mystery figured out with qemu now i have to do something about audio04:57
gnarfacethe alsa device shows up in the guest but i just get errors trying to play to it04:57
gnarfacepossibly also something stupid simple like the gateway thing04:58
FilipZ1I would like to upload a file from my Android phone, but my system doesn't detect it as the external storage through the USB. Does somebody have an idea how to fix that?05:17
rrqyou have "adb" installed?05:17
rrqon the "my system"05:18
FilipZ1I don't05:18
rrqok then it's complicated...05:18
FilipZ1Then how can I do it?05:19
rrqI guess "my system" doesn't have any networking ability atm05:20
rrqany physcal sdcard transfer option?05:21
rwpI am assuming you plugged your phone into your "my system"?  Android dropped support for USB Mass Storage years ago.05:23
rwpYou have to use MTP and an MTP transfer client now.05:23
rrqgnarface: you have the -audiodev argument setup?05:35
rrqmaybe -audidev alsa,id=default05:36
gnarfaceyea, i had added it and tried a few variations despite that i didn't think it was necessary last time05:36
gnarfacestill no joy05:36
gnarfacelast time i just had this: -device intel-hda -device hda-duplex05:37
gnarfacedon't remember how well i tested it though05:37
gnarfacenow i have this:05:37
gnarface-audiodev alsa,id=snd0,in.mixing-engine=off,out.mixing-engine=off,in.fixed-settings=off,out.fixed-settings=off05:37
gnarface-device intel-hda -device hda-duplex,audiodev=snd005:37
gnarface(also had tried it without all the mixing turned off, no luck)05:37
gnarfacespeaker-test says something about a broken pipe05:38
rrqmaybe needs -soundhw something as well?05:38
gnarfacehmm, i had not tried -soundhw even though i saw it mentioned. i thought it was deprecated or something because it's no longer in the manpage05:39
gnarfaceyea, my version says "-soundhw: invalid option"05:39
gnarfacei'm doing this on ceres05:39
gnarfacerrq: what do you know about possible -machine options for this? there's an example at the top of the man page that goes: "qemu-system-x86_64 some.img -audiodev <backend>,id=<name> -machine pcspk-audiodev=<name>" but neither pcspk-audiodev nor anything else that looks obviously audio related shows up in the man page section for -machine nor in the output of "qemu-system-x86_64 -machine help"05:48
gnarfacenowhere else online has any example for this mentioned using -machine in conjunction with audio though05:48
gnarfaceor at all for that matter05:49
rrqI would guess that shows how to confgure the emulated PC speaker to go through a certain host backend05:52
rrq(I'm running chimaera)05:53
rrquse maybe "-soundhw all" (I think it failed due to the ":")05:54
rrqor "-soundhw hda" is fine05:55
rrqah use '-device intel-hda -device hda-duplex' instead05:55
rrqthat would be to establish an emulated sound card, and then you'll need "-audiodev blaha" to declare the host side05:57
rrqlong time since I used sound in qemu05:59
rrqbut the host end typically plays to the name "default" doesn't it?06:00
rrqmaybe that's the out.device setting for -audiodev06:00
rrqqemu is happy with eg "-audiodev alsa,id=snd0 -device intel-hda -device hda-duplex,audiodev=snd0"06:09
rrqor eg "-audiodev alsa,id=snd0 -device AC97,audiodev=snd0"06:11
FilipZ1I am trying to pass the output of strace to a file, but it just doesn't write to it, instead only printing it in the terminal.06:26
rrquse strace -f ifup wlan0 >& LOG ... then eventually ctrl-C on that06:27
rrqstrace dumps to stderr06:27
FilipZ1Thanks! It works now.06:28
rrqgnarface: seems like "-audiodev alsa,id=snd0 -device AC97,audiodev=snd0" is good .. I just trialled it with chimaera live iso06:32
rrq(on a chimaera host)06:33
FilipZI tried to paste it in , but I got "Length of code is not allowed to exceed 150kB", so I tried to open that file, to copy a part of it into one file, and the second into the other, but there was something wrong with its encoding, and its size increased several times with this. How should I do it properly? :)06:47
FilipZAlso, a big part of characters from the output looks unrecognizable to me.06:51
rrquse: split -l 1000 logfile XX06:52
rrqgives you a succession of XXnnn files with 1000 lines in06:52
rrqmaybe 1000 is small06:52
rrqor I can set up a different "publishing place" if you like06:54
FilipZMost of these printed-out characters are displayed as the question marks on the background of some black form, with use of the encoding accessible to me. Why would it be like this?06:55
FilipZthe encodings accessible to me*06:55
rrqhmmm shouldn't be "most"06:57
rrqfirst line should be like: "execve("/sbin/ifup", ["ifup", "wlan0"], ..."06:57
FilipZ"split -l 1000 logfile XX" only creates a single file for me.07:02
rrqcould you do "hexdump -C logfile | head -n 2" and copy those 2 lines?07:04
rrqmmm without cut&paste might be hardish07:05
FilipZ"00000000  77 70 61 5f 73 75 70 70  6c 69 63 61 6e 74 3a 20  |wpa_supplicant: |07:05
FilipZ00000010  2f 73 62 69 6e 2f 77 70  61 5f 73 75 70 70 6c 69  |/sbin/wpa_suppli|07:05
rrqok.. so you straced wpa_supplicant rather than ifup .. fair enough .. how large is the file?07:06
rrquse: wc logfile07:07
FilipZ189.2 KiB07:07
rrqok... so "grep openat logfile > XX" wouldn't be too large to paste07:08
FilipZI did "sudo strace -f ifup wlan0". I don't get why it straced wpa_supplicant instead of ifup.07:08
rrqyes seems peculiar, would be safer with "sudo -- strace -f ifup wlan0" to kae sure that sude doesn't eat the "-f"07:10
FilipZI get: grep filelocation binary file matches , and the file created is single, and 0 byte in size07:11
rrqok, "grep -a openat logfile > XX"07:11
FilipZThat was from it07:12
FilipZOh, right07:12
FilipZThat's a single file, 260 bytes long now.07:13
FilipZopenat(AT_FDCWD, "/run/network/.ifstate.lock", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND|O_CLOEXEC, 0666) = 407:13
FilipZopenat(AT_FDCWD, "/run/network/ifstate", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_APPEND|O_CLOEXEC, 0666) = 507:13
FilipZopenat(AT_FDCWD, "/run/network/.ifstate.tmp", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666) = 607:13
rrqhmm something funny has been happening with that logging07:14
rrqcould try again into a new file to see if that then is "the same"?07:20
rrq"strace" I mean07:20
rrqI'll have to play in real life a bit; some hours... hope you'll have it sorted when I'm back :)07:30
FilipZI am afraid it wouldn't be helpful for now, as I restarted the system and it is not in the same problem state. Or could it help still?07:31
FilipZIt will probably happen again after some time, though.07:32
joergmaybe useful? >>  -o filename Write  the  trace output to the file filename rather than to stderr. form is used if -ff option is supplied. <<07:46
FilipZI tried earlier to send those messages, but they didn't pass through:08:51
FilipZAfter I did "sudo -- strace -f ifup wlan0", when the connection broke again, it didn't finished with the error, but was printing output all the time, until I have stopped it after a couple of minutes. It wasn't the same problem state though, but the lighter issue, where I can still fix it by doing ifdown, ifup on the wlan0 interface.08:52
FilipZI don't know why but I have the dhclient proces with the exact same arguments turned on twice.08:52
FilipZIt is not how it should be, right?08:52
FilipZBeside that, the bigger issue, with that previous problem state appeared later again, and I did "sudo -- strace -f ifup wlan0" of it.08:55
FilipZ1Later I will also try the configuration recommended by rwp . Could it help in such case?09:08
unixbsdwhere to find hearder to 5.10 7 amd64?12:07
djphunixbsd: huh?12:07
unixbsd   Linux DEVUAN 5.10.0-7-amd6412:09
unixbsdi need the headers deb12:09
unixbsd   <--- not there12:09
unixbsdi need 5.10 7 common and amd64 for that  5.10.0-7-amd64 from the devuan website.12:10
djphwhat version of devuan are you running?12:10
unixbsddevuan kernel from teh live cdrom12:10
djph... so .. chimaera?12:11
unixbsd where to find those debs�?12:12
djphyou do know how to use apt, right?12:14
unixbsdnot there12:14
djph5.10.0-16 is certainly in the chimaera repos12:15
unixbsdi need 5.10.0-712:16
djphafaik, that's not part of chimaera12:16
unixbsdit is on the cdrom for live or instalaltion12:17
djphleast per the lowest available is 5.10.0-1212:17
djphand yes, the live-image is going to be behind the curve12:17
unixbsdwell i didnt dream it is from chimaera installation.12:17
rrqseems to be something here:
djphthat's how live-images tend to work; they're not respun for every kernel patch12:18
djphwhat are you really trying to do here, unixbsd ?12:18
unixbsdi need my deb12:18
unixbsdonl.y two. common and amd6412:19
unixbsd   links    <--- this si the /boot12:19
djphunixbsd: *sigh* look, the live-image is ... weir ... what are you trying to do that you think you need those headers?12:19
unixbsdbecause it works fine with my DELL ... other sometimes reboots the PC weirdly unexpeectilddely.12:20
djph... "kernel headers" won't change that at all.12:20
djphthey're for compiling software ...12:20
unixbsdon it i need virtualbox so i need headers12:21
djph.. you can't run vbox on the live image ...12:22
unixbsdit is a custom live12:22
djph*sigh* good luck then.12:23
unixbsdlets look if into the devuan_chimaera_4.0.2_amd64_desktop-live.iso i can find those those two debs12:24
djph... or since you're customizing it ... why not just use a newer kernel ...?12:25
thegoatunixbsd, the headers from 5.10.0-7 and 5.10.0-16 will be virtually the same, so whatever you need to do with the 7 version should be doable with the 16 version12:25
djphI mean, your attempt to run vbox on a live session is still quite likely to be disappointing ...12:25
thegoat16 is just the more up-to-date with bug fies12:25
Horrific-Helenahdjph: Upgrading to a newer kernel most the time doesn't provide any benefits.12:27
Horrific-HelenahHell, ISPs still stick 2.4 on routers and they do just fine.12:27
djphHorrific-Helenah: yeah well, he's complaining he can't find something older than what's in the repos for his custom-respin of the live iso (so... just go with what's readily available...)12:28
unixbsdok then i apt-get the 16 !!12:29
unixbsdi will remake a live ...12:30
Horrific-Helenahdjph: Oh12:47
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: So why do you need to remaster Devuan because of that problem?12:47
Horrific-HelenahAnd depending on what you expect of a remaster/new distro, it could be a damn nightmare to maintain.12:48
Horrific-HelenahAlso I have just turned up so I apologise if I'm not understanding things.12:48
unixbsddjph: nope 16 not working12:50
unixbsdbut 7 works fine12:50
unixbsdpc is a dell12:50
unixbsd8 core12:51
Horrific-HelenahOkay so which software is this? I'm trying to see if being on version 7 could be a unnecessary workaround rather than a solution to a problem you're having with version 13.12:51
Horrific-HelenahYou want virtualbox?12:52
unixbsdme yes12:52
Horrific-HelenahHave you tried other things too say qemu? Also are you trying to run virtualbox in a live system? That's going to be tediously slow and you won't like it!12:52
Horrific-HelenahPC brand means nothing, it doesn't help us, it doesn't help you to find a solution nor is the number of CPU cores as VMs can run on single core hosts. What would more help us is say your BIOS settings, for example does your CPU support VT-x or the AMD equivalent and have you enabled it and things like this?12:56
unixbsdon my dell computer, the kernel 7 worsk better than 16 visibly.12:57
djphsuuuure it does.12:59
djphI mean, barring something between -8 and -16 disabling spectre/meltdown/speculative execution bugs that got some big news a while back ...13:00
unixbsdmy cpu is a intel inside core i7vpro13:02
Horrific-HelenahWait... you're using older kernels?! You probably haven't even thought about updating the headers...13:02
Horrific-HelenahAlso, why are you downgrading kernel versions? That could run you into some vulnerabilities you're unaware of, you should check advisory boards before you even think about doing that.13:02
unixbsdwell, if it stops other way is to vanilla. but it is too long to do.13:03
Horrific-HelenahI think you're trying to work around issues without realising it rather than resolve them with a solution, I think if I remember, there is a module called "vbox", have you checked it's available in your kernel? Have you checked that you have updated your linux headers? Are you compiling kernels?13:04
Horrific-HelenahIs the module loaded?13:04
Horrific-Helenahdjph: Did unixbsd even post any logs?13:04
Horrific-HelenahI don't see any.13:04
djphHorrific-Helenah: honestly, it was something about needing a specific header because apparently headers make the system more stable ... and then ohwaitno i need headers for this live CD so I can run vbox13:05
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: May I see some virtualbox logs please?13:06
unixbsdi try again... maybe my media.13:08
Horrific-HelenahHave you heard of the XY problem? Please read this It's basically where you ask for X but really you want Y and we don't know you want Y because you asked for X so please try producing X.13:08
Horrific-Helenah*so please try producing Y.13:08
unixbsdok, it seems to work better. i changed media. 16 seems to work... ufff!!  i try vbox now13:09
unixbsdholy shit13:10
unixbsdit crashed13:10
unixbsdi cannot install vbox on chimaera13:10
Horrific-HelenahAnd that's another communication issue is that I asked for logs but then you've just gone about it your own way and so people are wasting their time with you because we've put energy into asking you questions and you are not answering them. I'm sorry to be harsh but this looks to people like you are rejecting their support and as a result people would rather help someone else than you.13:11
unixbsdi took of course vbox 11 bullseye13:11
Horrific-HelenahSo you say that it doesn't install on chimaera but this is a communication issue because you didn't state why, you didn't produce a log.13:12
Horrific-HelenahWe can't help you unless you help us.13:12
djphunixbsd: you cannot install vbox _ON A LIVE SESSION_13:13
unixbsdi give up13:13
Horrific-Helenahdjph: Ah13:13
Horrific-HelenahWell there's your answer. May I ask why you want to spin up VMs on a live system?13:13
unixbsdanyhow try to run vbox on chimera on a DELL pc that would be intresting. on mine it seems that vbox dpkg -i does not work. someohw.13:13
djphHorrific-Helenah: I mean, I could entirely be missing key info here (like he installed it)13:13
Horrific-Helenahdjph: I'm missing a lot of information so your point is valid.13:14
djphunixbsd: yes or no, you are trying this from a live-image of some sort?13:14
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: Forget about your computer branding, it's just a label.13:14
djphthey're probably all made in the same factory these days anyway :D13:16
Horrific-HelenahYep and not only that, most hardware bugs would be to do with things like chipset which companies such as Intel and AMD produce.13:18
unixbsdi will make you a dmesg13:18
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: That's a start but we need as many relevant logs as you can find.13:18
Horrific-HelenahAs for dpkg, you just need to give us its error output.13:19
djphHorrific-Helenah: I think starting with confirmation that "yes, really this is a live session" is kinda a good starting point ...13:19
Horrific-HelenahAlso why are you using dpkg for Devuan packages?13:19
Horrific-HelenahThat could put your system in a mess...13:19
Horrific-HelenahAlso what djph said.13:19
Horrific-HelenahI keep forgetting you are using a live session but you will just be wasting your time and our time, it's not going to work, you simply will never get vbox to run in a live session.13:21
unixbsdanyhow we must use the bulleye vbox deb file, that is maybe not clean13:21
Horrific-HelenahAnd even if you do, it's going to eat your RAM because everything, your distro, your software, vbox is loading fully into RAM.13:22
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: That is unclean indeed. It's hacky.13:22
djphHorrific-Helenah: it has to be a chatbot.13:22
Horrific-HelenahOh dear13:22
* Horrific-Helenah stops talking13:22
djphHorrific-Helenah: it's the only thing that makes sense anymore13:23
Horrific-Helenahdjph: I'm going to help people who actually want help and not people who go around in circles.13:23
unixbsddmesg log... here   <- vbox crashes on it, with bbox bulleye  virtualbox-6.1_6.1.38-153438_Debian_bullseye_amd64.deb13:24
unixbsdthe pc turns off and black while dpkg -i this deb13:24
djphunixbsd: yes or no, this is a live session?13:24
Horrific-HelenahAre you sure that's the right vboxdrv for your kernel? I see "module verification failed: signature and/or required key missing - tainting kernel"13:25
Horrific-HelenahThat's a mismatch.13:25
unixbsdah it is installed seems like13:25
Horrific-HelenahThat's irrelevant, I can see it's installed.13:25
unixbsdbut xset mayeb. .. i dont know. realy. i messed up my installation.13:25
Horrific-HelenahThis is how modules work, any changes to the kernel can break them so the modules have to be kept up to date with the kernel or they won't work. You can't just take a kernel and try loading modules for a different kernel version.13:26
unixbsd  seems anyhow better with a kernel 7 rather than 16.13:29
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: It's the same one you posted earlier...13:29
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: Please read this:
Horrific-HelenahIn full.13:30
Horrific-HelenahIt will help you in life.13:30
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: I'm going to stop talking to you until you read it in full and your questions about problems show you have.13:32
Horrific-HelenahOne example is, you are still going for Y but djph told you Y won't work and that you need to do X but you refuse to do X and keep resorting to Y, Y in this case is running vbox in a live session, djph stated X which is what you want for vbox to work which is to run it in an installed session.13:33
unixbsdanyhow if you find the 5.10 7 amd64 deb files, please think about me.13:37
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: Did you read it?13:37
unixbsdnot yet., i wil.13:38
fsmithredoracle vbox is the only choice in chimaera. I've got it installed here.13:43
fsmithredii  virtualbox-6.1                       6.1.34-150636.1~Debian~bullseye        amd64        Oracle VM VirtualBox13:44
onefangOnly coice for what?  I have qemu installed on my Chimaera desktop.13:45
Horrific-HelenahWhat onefang said.13:45
fsmithredonly choice for virtualbox. It's not in the repo13:45
fsmithredyes, qemu is there and I use that, too.13:46
Horrific-Helenahqemu would be better in a live session than virtualbox anyway, qemu is a lot lighter, virtualbox for example has a LOT of GUI baggage to drag around.13:47
fsmithredI'm using vbox because it's easier to do bridged network, but it is s l o w compared to qemu.13:47
Horrific-Helenahfsmithred: Well what that is, is you are not used to it. It's easy for me but I understand. :)13:48
onefangI have qemu bridged network on my server, no problems.13:48
unixbsdsame here13:48
unixbsdbridge is hard13:48
unixbsdvbox works with networking very well13:48
Horrific-HelenahAgain, it's that you are not used to it, bridged networking becomes easy to do once you understand what it actually does and how it's too be configured and why it has to be configured that way.13:49
fsmithredwell, maybe when I get back home we can go over my tap/tun configs and you can tell me how to do it better. If I run two VMs, they get the same address if they are set for dhcp13:49
Horrific-Helenahfsmithred: We would be happy to help. :)13:49
Horrific-HelenahWell someone will be.13:50
fsmithredyou gonna be around later this week?>13:50
Horrific-HelenahWell I'm away on the 7th.13:50
onefangI suspect the two VMs are not being set to use different MACs.  Off the top of my head.13:51
Horrific-Helenahunixbsd: Did you read about the XY problem?13:51
fsmithredgood call, onefang. I did not set mac addresses.13:51
Horrific-HelenahYou most likely don't have to set it but best to rule things out. :)13:52
onefangBut I'm using fixed IPs and a single VM on my bridged server.  So never tried your use case.13:52
fsmithredif I set static IP in the guest, it works. But I run a lot of live-isos and those are all set for dhcp.13:53
onefangFrom my notes "QEMU uses 52:54:00:12:34:56 for all VMs" unless you tell it otherwise.13:53
Horrific-HelenahOh, I forgot about that, onefang13:55
Horrific-HelenahYes, that's bound to run into issues. :D13:55
fsmithredso if I have separate static ip addresses set up for separate tap devices in /etc/network/interfaces, I just need to add some mac addresses there? Or does it have to be in the qemu command?13:56
onefangIn the qemu comand.13:57
Necrodiversince everyones talking about qemu, any ideas on how to create a vm for winblows 95 in qemu, if its even possible?13:57
fsmithredI guess you would need iso files of the installer disk(s)13:57
onefangI've never tried that.  I have a Windows 8.1 VM.13:57
fsmithredI have win xp that I can run in vbox or qemu13:58
Necrodiveri have this cd that was designed for 95/98 that i want to play but wine wont let me use it even when i go through the trouble to set up the win95/98 stuff for it13:58
onefangAnd yes, I did install it from the installer disk.  Then moved it to real hardware with dd, with no issues, and recently moved it back to a VM.  lol13:58
fsmithredI don't recall how I made that VM, as it was over 10 years ago13:58
Horrific-HelenahNecrodiver: It's even possible to run things a lot older than that such as System V UNIX13:59
Necrodiverin qemu?13:59
Horrific-HelenahNecrodiver: Yes14:00
Necrodivermaybe the commands i used for qemu werent right maybe?14:00
Horrific-HelenahWell it's about the hardware you're setting the VM to have for example Windows 95 isn't going to like the VirtIO stuff unless there are drivers for it on the VirtIO disc.14:01
Necrodiveri dunno i tried to follow some tutorials on youtube for some easy stuff like peppermintOS devuan edition and ran into various errors along the way so i just gave up14:01
fsmithredthat should work.14:01
Horrific-Helenahand also the amount of RAM you assign, Windows 95, I forgot what its maximum RAM it can support is, but there is a ceiling.14:01
Necrodiveryeah i think it was like 512 mb14:01
Horrific-HelenahThat sounds like it.14:02
Necrodiveri could get peppermintOS to run but no sound14:02
Necrodiverand couldnt figure out what i was doing wrong14:02
fsmithredthat would be a qemu command issue14:02
onefangQemu does sometimes deprecate command line options, so you sometimes have to track down "How do I do that in my versions, which is different from the version i found described on the web?".14:02
Necrodiveryeah figured14:02
Necrodiverbest way is porbably to just look at the tutorials/faqs on the qemu site im guessing?14:03
fsmithredand experience14:03
Necrodiverwhen i get some more time ill have to mess with it14:03
Necrodiverstarting a new job tomorrow so14:03
onefangAnd keep notes in your qemu scripts, so you don't forget how you fixed it last time.14:03
Necrodiverthats something i need to learn to do, is make qemu scripts14:04
fsmithredexample: qemu-system-x86_64: warning: '-soundhw hda' is deprecated, please use '-device intel-hda -device hda-duplex' instead14:04
Necrodiveri was doing everything through commands14:04
fsmithredI use the deprecated option because the recommended one doesn't work14:04
fsmithredI learned scripting so I wouldn't have to remember commands14:05
onefangI have learned 100 languages in my programming career.  I learned scripting coz I needed to write some scripts.  B-)14:06
Necrodiveri think because im still on the newer side of linux, i prefer to use the commands just so i can at least try to understand how they function14:07
fsmithredgood idea14:08
onefangWell shell scripts are just a list of commands with "#!/bin/sh" as the first line.  So you are most of the way there.  B-)14:08
Necrodiverim weird i like the hard way for some reason14:10
Necrodiveri do have a odt file for copy pasting commands i need on the fly14:10
Horrific-HelenahThat's not weird, personal choice. :)14:13
rrqwhen it comes to qemu networking, I prefer the vde option as it especially lets me run the qemu boxes non-root14:18
FilipZrrq: could we continue now? I have the new logs from the strace, as this issue happened again.14:35
rrqok. it's late here, so let's sort it quickly ;)14:36
rrqcould you also first paste your /etc/network/interfaces somewhere?14:37
FilipZhexdump -C logfile | head -n 2 output from that new logs is:14:39
FilipZ00000000  77 70 61 5f 73 75 70 70  6c 69 63 61 6e 74 3a 20  |wpa_supplicant: |14:39
FilipZ00000010  2f 73 62 69 6e 2f 77 70  61 5f 73 75 70 70 6c 69  |/sbin/wpa_suppli|14:39
rrqthat's still very very strange since strace starts with "ifup"14:40
FilipZrrq: I can, but could you set up this publishing place, you mentioned before? It would be easier with the bigger file14:40
rrqthe interfaces file isn't large14:40
FilipZI did it with "sudo -- strace -f ifup wlan0" like you recommended before. I did it also when it wasn't crashing like this yet, but that file is very large, because it printed it for many minutes, untill I stopped it, as there were no error messages, apparently.14:42
rrqthe log you could upload wht "nc -w 2 12000 < logfile"14:43
rrqthen it's available at
FilipZInterfaces file content:
rrqdo you have any files in /etc/network/interfaces.d/ ?14:45
FilipZI do not14:45
rrqok.. then the head of /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf ... but note that that file contains your wireless access credentials14:46
rrqyou might not want to publish those14:46
rrqI just want to sight the initial lines, before any "network" block14:47
FilipZ here. I changed the credentials here14:49
rrqok so that looks all perfect14:50
rrqthe backlog said something about multipl dhclient .. is that still so? use: pgrep -a dhclient14:52
FilipZ"the log you could upload wht "nc -w 2 12000 < logfile"" I don't get that part. It contains a specific IP, or at least it looks like this to me, and with this exact content(logfile swapped for the actual file location ofc) it doesn't print anything14:52
FilipZrrq: please check the chat logs for this. I wrote about it earlier. I did notice in the taskmanager that I had 2 dhclient processes.14:54
FilipZI still have.14:55
FilipZBut when I did ifdown, or when it crashed, one was left.14:55
rrqok; do ifdown and kill the one that's left14:56
FilipZIt didn't dissapear, but when I did ifup wlan0 again, the third one appeared. :)14:58
FilipZWith a higher pid.14:58
FilipZThey are of different sizes, somehow. The new one have the highest size. The one with the lowest PID have the lowest size.14:59
rrqok; do "ifdown --force wlan0" then "pkill -9 dhclient" then ifup wlan014:59
rrqthe pkill command will kill all of them14:59
FilipZI did so. When I did ifup wlan0 2 of them appeared, and there was some other third process, but with a little different name, then it and one of the dhclient processes disappeared, and now there is just one.15:03
FilipZI think that it is even bigger than the previous 3.15:04
FilipZUses up more memory, I meant.15:04
rrqhmm could you paste output of "pstree" somewhere? it's a command from the "psmisc" package15:05
rrqit shows running processes with parent-child relationship15:08
FilipZSorry. That was without sudo15:09
rrqthat's fine15:09
FilipZBeside this, what did you mean by "then it's available at"? At I got 502 Bad Gateway, and when I entered that exact url I only got an empty file.15:12
rrqhmm is a file of 193418 bytes15:13
FilipZOh, now I got this. I thought there was some error earlier.15:14
rrqprobably strace should have the "-o logfile" argument, to avoid gett its log mixed up with the program's stderr15:16
FilipZThere was now, that I check this again. It was a 0 byte size file earlier.15:16
rrqright; there is always some caching involved... but it's there now ...15:16
FilipZ"nc -w 2 12000 < logfile" output with this is: (UNKNOWN) [] 12000 (?) : Connection refused15:17
FilipZDid you asked me about that?15:17
rrqno, sorry... my nc finished ... I meant that you need to rerun strace with "-o logfile" rather then the ">&logfile" bit15:19
rrq(it looks like "sudo" makes the stderr logging messed up too much)15:20
onefangDon't stay up past your bed time rrq.15:22
FilipZI make use strace with -o argument next, but it needs to be done just when that same problem appears again, right?15:22
rrqyes; so ifup wlan0 worked fine after having killed all dhclient?15:23
FilipZAfter you asked me earlier? Yes, if it didn't, I would need to restart the system.15:24
FilipZI mean, if that error occurred again.15:25
rrqnext time you might try first with the same procedure (ifdown + kill any dhclient + ifup)15:28
rrqthat doesn;t explain why it breaks but might at least be a recovery path15:29
FilipZAlright. Then I will do this, and report its output with the -o option here.15:29
rrqok ... g'night15:30
FilipZgood night :)15:34
gnarfacerrq: AC97 mode seems to be working fine, dunno what's wrong with the other one16:10
gnarfacethanks for the idea16:11
onefangThink he's gone to sleep, it's after 1 AM in his time zone.16:11
gnarface(i had picked intel-hda because that was what the motherboard actually has, odd that it wouldn't work)16:11
eyalrozHello Devuaners,17:10
eyalrozwhen I apt-get dist-upgrade'd my daedalus today, I was told:17:10
eyalrozdpkg: pipewire-media-session: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:17:10
eyalroz gnome-remote-desktop depends on pipewire-media-session | wireplumber; however:17:10
eyalroz  Package pipewire-media-session is to be removed.17:10
eyalroz  Package wireplumber is not installed.17:10
eyalrozI think I want the remote-desktop app, and I did not ask for the media-session package to be removed, so not sure what's going on.17:10
gnarfacewell there's a problem with the packages probably. it would have warned you about packages it's gonna remove though, you just gotta actually read it.17:13
gnarfacesometimes it's easy to miss if there are a lot of packages, it lists the removals in the middle17:14
eyalrozOk, just giving a heads-up in case the problem is not merely on my system17:28
eyalrozOh, it looks like libc was updated and g++ wad version-bumped...17:29
onefangAlso daedulus isn't stable yet, so you might get this sort of oddness every now and then.  Try again the next day.17:33
onefangThe thing I find odd about that is that upstream Debian is switching from pulesaudio to pipewire for that version.  Maybe they are half way in doing that?17:40
onefangThen again, way past my bed time.  G'night.17:41
rwpeyalroz, Regarding running Testing, See the "Best practices for Testing users" here
FilipZ1rrq: after doing "sudo -- strace -f ifup wlan0 -o logfile" like you recommended, I got some errors that seem to tell, that it for some reason cannot write to the file, or doesn't detect it, even if present.23:38
FilipZ1Whats wrong with it, then?23:39

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